| View previous topic | View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Crazy_fan
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 215
|
 Posted: Tue, 23-Sep-2008 17:16 Post subject: |
 |
|
| Jonathan wrote: | | ivan wrote: | Whom to trust - to you or to the certified by FIG ones ?
Cheers  ))) |
The ones drinking vodka like water! |
Isn't this great, now we are going to go into stereotypes about who drinks vodka like water. These are middle-aged ladies who would pass out after the first glass, my friend. 
But you know, if I could be an amazing gymnast like Kanaeva, I would buy vodka for the entire International Federation. 
_________________
Filipa Siderova- the future of Bulgarian gymnastics! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
dalit
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 4113
Location: Israel
|
| Posted: Fri, 26-Sep-2008 1:11 Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Crazy_fan"
True, it has been 5 years. I am kind of ready for this period to be over. I like watching Anna Bessonova perform but all the whining and screaming when she doesn't win is just too much.[/quote] As long as she cootinue to compete i don't mind to have those "whining and screaming" .... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leonela
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 247
Location: downtown abbey
|
| Posted: Sat, 27-Sep-2008 4:18 Post subject: |
|
|
First let me say that I am not an expert on scores, I am just a fan who likes to watch this beautiful sport. But in my opinion from what I have seen prior to Beijing Anna's club routine was scored wrong. And not just her but others were scored wrong as well Almudena, Nata, Inna the list goes on.
Also I don't think we are discussing the main problem. Why are judges like Deriugina(whom will be back in a few years) Viner and Lashchinskaya allowed to be on the judging panel? Deriugina is on her second suspension, Viner has made awful comments about other gymnasts so how can we expect her to score fairly, and Lashchinskaya whom was suspended in the biggest rg scandal and is allowed to judge in an Olympic game.
Please someone answer my question because I don't get it? It doesn't matter if you like Bessonova or Kapranova or if your pro Ukraine or pro Russia I think we can all agree that the judges I mentioned should never be allowed to work as a judge again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leonela
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 247
Location: downtown abbey
|
| Posted: Sat, 27-Sep-2008 7:21 Post subject: |
|
|
| I also wanted to add that in my opinion( again I am not an expert on scoring) Bessonova's AA clubs was better than her qualifying. So why a lower score? It honestly makes me believe the judges were trying to keep her down. And it kind of makes sense to me because Kapranova had her bad clubs routine almost right before Anna performed her clubs. It appears to me the judges wanted to keep Olga's hope alive for a medal. I feel like without Olga failing in her clubs Anna would have gotten a higher score. And then there was the image of Viner discussing Anna's AA ribbon score. Really when you add up everything the qualifying and AA it just really looked like the judges had it in for Anna. And I hate to say that because I don't want to make her a victim, she did have a bad Olympics and did not deserve gold or silver, but that's the impression I got. I have in the past been critical of Anna's coach Deriugina and how she has also been corrupt for her benefit, so I don't want it to seem like I am just defending my favorite gymnast. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Crazy_fan
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 215
|
| Posted: Sun, 28-Sep-2008 1:22 Post subject: |
|
|
| Leonela wrote: | First let me say that I am not an expert on scores, I am just a fan who likes to watch this beautiful sport. But in my opinion from what I have seen prior to Beijing Anna's club routine was scored wrong. And not just her but others were scored wrong as well Almudena, Nata, Inna the list goes on.
Also I don't think we are discussing the main problem. Why are judges like Deriugina(whom will be back in a few years) Viner and Lashchinskaya allowed to be on the judging panel? Deriugina is on her second suspension, Viner has made awful comments about other gymnasts so how can we expect her to score fairly, and Lashchinskaya whom was suspended in the biggest rg scandal and is allowed to judge in an Olympic game.
Please someone answer my question because I don't get it? It doesn't matter if you like Bessonova or Kapranova or if your pro Ukraine or pro Russia I think we can all agree that the judges I mentioned should never be allowed to work as a judge again. |
Why are the same judges used over and over again in other sports, too, like artistic gymnastics and figure skating? Anyone have a wild guess.
_________________
Filipa Siderova- the future of Bulgarian gymnastics! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CoCoNuTsiopatHic
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 821
|
| Posted: Sun, 28-Sep-2008 16:27 Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, the current President of the Women's Artistic Technical Committee, Nelli Kim, was once actually sanctioned for corrupt judging. And now she's the President! 
_________________
*Elegance is an attitude.* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gymnast stefie
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 277
Location: New Zealand
|
| Posted: Mon, 13-Oct-2008 23:54 Post subject: |
|
|
here is a question that i have had for a long time...since perhaps 2000 olympics......
How do all the Olympic Gymnasts get their balances counted when they do not very often hold them long enough to get counted??
_________________
RIP MY BEAUTIFUL ANGELS! I MIS AND LOVE YOU ALL WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL!! XOXOXOX |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CoCoNuTsiopatHic
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 821
|
| Posted: Tue, 14-Oct-2008 19:13 Post subject: |
|
|
| gymnast stefie wrote: | here is a question that i have had for a long time...since perhaps 2000 olympics......
How do all the Olympic Gymnasts get their balances counted when they do not very often hold them long enough to get counted?? |
How long do you think they're supposed to hold them? It's not still rings. 
If the gymnast is able to complete the two technical movements in the fixed position of the balance then it was held long enough.
_________________
*Elegance is an attitude.* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CoCoNuTsiopatHic
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 821
|
| Posted: Tue, 14-Oct-2008 20:12 Post subject: |
|
|
Going back to the comments on my analysis...
| sofia wrote: |
first of all element 16 balance ....you don't have to do it on the releve,the first split...... |
Yes, you do! The ronde balances are classified in the Code of Points by beginning in a Front Split position. That shape must be shown on the toe. If it could begin on a flat foot then it would be classified as a flexibility as mixed difficulties are characterized by the first phase.
| Invisible Hedgehog wrote: | I managed to find the video so here are my comments.
5. F – Back scale w/ 180 deg. turn = 0.6 (No value—Arch of trunk not properly shown)
here I disagree. which arch of trunk do you need? to bend over her supporting leg? it is EXACTLY what is written in the Code of Points - back scale of the trunk (is it written HOW MUCH she should bend???) and rotation on 180 degrees. That is right what she does. |
The CoP says "back bend of the trunk" and the only way she gets her trunk below horizontal is by bending the trunk sideways, and before the rotation is fully complete her trunk is already starting to rise just a little bit. On second inspection, perhaps I was too strict here and should've credited it, but the difficulty definitely calls for a deduction for "incorrectly held body segment" for the way she turns that trunk sideways to show the shape.
| Quote: | 8. B – Attitude = 0.2 (No value—Position not well-fixed)
hmm she fixes it quite well in fact |
That position never came to a complete stop. As soon as she hit the shape her leg dropped right back down and she pulled it back up again. I don't think that's acceptable.
| Quote: | 13. P – Attitude 1080 w/ shape change to Passé 1080 = 1.2 (No value—Position not well-fixed)
OMG, IF HER LEG did bend BELOW the horizontal line during the biggest part of the pivot - then of course it cannot be counted, but here she does really well 3+3 = 1.2. I think for a Russian judge it will not cause a problem
There were A LOT of discussions on her attitudes during around 2002-2004 when really her hip went low often though she still had many rotations but here I strongly disagree. Sesina had the same question earlier as well but she also improved. |
I don't know. I try to follow exactly what the Code of Points says, and based on the definition it gives for the term "well-fixed" and the stipulation that a pivot MUST be well-fixed and well-definined to receive credit, if there is any mobility in the shape of the pivot, then the Code of Points instructs you to discredit it. Perhaps the Code of Points is unrealistic is stipulating this, but I try to follow the CoP with unwaivering exactness. If the FIG TC doesn't want judges to be this strict then they need to change the Code of Points. They could say that "position not well-fixed" doesn't discredit a difficulty but just lowers its value by 0.1 in addition to the execution penalty. But until they do that I feel compelled to follow what the CoP currently says.
| Quote: | 15. P – Attitude 1080 = 0.6
I would really say that it is 0.80.
Pro Russian judge 0.60 |
I am counting from the point where she fixes the attitude position. She does not complete four rotations in that fixed shape.
| Quote: | 16. B – Front split w/ help w/ circle to back split w/ help = 0.6 (No value—First phase not executed on releve)
I disagree here as well because she raises on releve and it is not a problem |
This is the one difficulty that I am most confident should never be credited the way she does it. I don't know why she hasn't just been doing the Front split w/ help w/ 1/2 turn of trunk balance in place of it where she doesn't have a problem starting the balance on releve. It's only 0.1 lower in DV and she actually deserves the credit.
_________________
*Elegance is an attitude.* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gymnast stefie
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 277
Location: New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu, 16-Oct-2008 8:11 Post subject: |
|
|
| CoCoNuTsiopatHic wrote: | | gymnast stefie wrote: | here is a question that i have had for a long time...since perhaps 2000 olympics......
How do all the Olympic Gymnasts get their balances counted when they do not very often hold them long enough to get counted?? |
How long do you think they're supposed to hold them? It's not still rings.
If the gymnast is able to complete the two technical movements in the fixed position of the balance then it was held long enough. |
hehe fair enough.....just sometimes it doesn't seem like its been held
thanks
_________________
RIP MY BEAUTIFUL ANGELS! I MIS AND LOVE YOU ALL WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL!! XOXOXOX |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sofia
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2188
Location: greece..
|
| Posted: Sun, 19-Oct-2008 11:11 Post subject: |
|
|
you have to understand that in seminars they give some explanations that are not written in the code .
they give some tolerance in the body difficulties....because gymnasts are not superheroes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CoCoNuTsiopatHic
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 821
|
| Posted: Wed, 29-Oct-2008 18:44 Post subject: |
|
|
| sofia wrote: | you have to understand that in seminars they give some explanations that are not written in the code .
they give some tolerance in the body difficulties....because gymnasts are not superheroes. |
I understand that you are correct about this, but still I disagree with the sport being run this way. The 2009 Code of Points still has all of the same guidelines for crediting difficulties as the 2005 Code of Points did, so I don't understand how the FIG TC can decide upon special tolerations in the seminars and then 1) not communicate them with the public via newsletter and 2) not publish those same tolerations in the next edition of the Code of Points. It all seems to me like a tactic to keep judging as a behind-closed-doors operation and justify corruption.
I feel that strict judging empowers coaches and athletes. When they are training and a problem arises with an element, if strict judging is enforced then the coach can know right then and there that the element will not receive credit and will receive a deduction of X amount of tenths. I think this gives them a much stronger control in crafting their routines to achieve the maximum score they can. If there are certain deviations being made from the Code of Points then it becomes a gray area for coaches and athletes to know whether or not those deviations will work to their advantage or if they will not, as is what seemed to likely be the case with Bessonova's clubs routine in Beijing.
If the FIG TC feels that their technical guidelines published in their Code of Points are too strict, then they need to sit down and find a way to modify them, verbalize them, and print them in the Code of Points or a Newsletter making it clear for everyone with an interest in rhythmic gymnastics judging.
_________________
*Elegance is an attitude.* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sofia
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2188
Location: greece..
|
| Posted: Thu, 30-Oct-2008 11:39 Post subject: |
|
|
I agree with you.
your analusis is very good if you use the code correctly.but real life is diffirent!!!!
I think new code is going to be a big failure.....from the beginning.because russian and ukrainian girls are going to take the same scores with uneven routines....so what's the point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
