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2009-2012 COP flexibility and waves
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Invisible Hedgehog



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 1718
Location: Ukraine, Kyiv

PostPosted: Sat, 10-Jan-2009 17:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tashik wrote:
Invisible Hedgehog wrote:
Tashik wrote:
Oh, I want this ERRATA...Is it something more important there?

By the way, I have another question, in 6.2.7 Total body waves, in criteria there is + 0,10 + Total body wave, down to the floor and + 0,40 + Total body wave, from the floor up, with or without back bend of the trunk. It is not saying anything about doing it through toes, but in the pictures it does. So my question is if gymnast is sitting on the flore with her legs in front of her and goes up with wave passing on the tips of the toes, can it be count as difficulty? Like Chashina did in this video at 1:07?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq4LAeCaJ5Y


I don't think you have to be on toes, it is not mentioned anywhere
by the way, in the Errata it is mentioned that you can add a value of a total wave (+0.10) to any difficulty and your value will go up on 0.10. Actually it is not very clear how the difficulty should be connected to the wave but I hope we will see it more during the season


Thank you IH, so you mean that this wave up from the floor (like Chashina did in this video) is a difficulty 0,5?


The problem is that here she does not have any wave movement but it looks like a simple back bent with goin up. I would not count it.
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pulsatilla



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun, 11-Jan-2009 17:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Invisible Hedgehog wrote:
Tashik wrote:
Invisible Hedgehog wrote:
Tashik wrote:
Oh, I want this ERRATA...Is it something more important there?

By the way, I have another question, in 6.2.7 Total body waves, in criteria there is + 0,10 + Total body wave, down to the floor and + 0,40 + Total body wave, from the floor up, with or without back bend of the trunk. It is not saying anything about doing it through toes, but in the pictures it does. So my question is if gymnast is sitting on the flore with her legs in front of her and goes up with wave passing on the tips of the toes, can it be count as difficulty? Like Chashina did in this video at 1:07?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq4LAeCaJ5Y


I don't think you have to be on toes, it is not mentioned anywhere
by the way, in the Errata it is mentioned that you can add a value of a total wave (+0.10) to any difficulty and your value will go up on 0.10. Actually it is not very clear how the difficulty should be connected to the wave but I hope we will see it more during the season


Thank you IH, so you mean that this wave up from the floor (like Chashina did in this video) is a difficulty 0,5?


The problem is that here she does not have any wave movement but it looks like a simple back bent with goin up. I would not count it.


I would say that in this example she gets help for rising from her hands, so it can't be considered valid.
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Tashik



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Mon, 12-Jan-2009 10:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

pulsatilla wrote:
Invisible Hedgehog wrote:
Tashik wrote:
Invisible Hedgehog wrote:
Tashik wrote:
Oh, I want this ERRATA...Is it something more important there?

By the way, I have another question, in 6.2.7 Total body waves, in criteria there is + 0,10 + Total body wave, down to the floor and + 0,40 + Total body wave, from the floor up, with or without back bend of the trunk. It is not saying anything about doing it through toes, but in the pictures it does. So my question is if gymnast is sitting on the flore with her legs in front of her and goes up with wave passing on the tips of the toes, can it be count as difficulty? Like Chashina did in this video at 1:07?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq4LAeCaJ5Y


I don't think you have to be on toes, it is not mentioned anywhere
by the way, in the Errata it is mentioned that you can add a value of a total wave (+0.10) to any difficulty and your value will go up on 0.10. Actually it is not very clear how the difficulty should be connected to the wave but I hope we will see it more during the season


Thank you IH, so you mean that this wave up from the floor (like Chashina did in this video) is a difficulty 0,5?


The problem is that here she does not have any wave movement but it looks like a simple back bent with goin up. I would not count it.


I would say that in this example she gets help for rising from her hands, so it can't be considered valid.


Thank you!
So you mena that she can't have help of hands... but it is nothing said about it in criteria... But if she had a wave movement and didn't have help of hands, would it be valid?
I think my big question is if you can do difficulties applyed to a criteria that looks different than in pictures..
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pulsatilla



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Mon, 12-Jan-2009 10:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tashik wrote:
pulsatilla wrote:
Invisible Hedgehog wrote:
Tashik wrote:
Invisible Hedgehog wrote:
Tashik wrote:
Oh, I want this ERRATA...Is it something more important there?

By the way, I have another question, in 6.2.7 Total body waves, in criteria there is + 0,10 + Total body wave, down to the floor and + 0,40 + Total body wave, from the floor up, with or without back bend of the trunk. It is not saying anything about doing it through toes, but in the pictures it does. So my question is if gymnast is sitting on the flore with her legs in front of her and goes up with wave passing on the tips of the toes, can it be count as difficulty? Like Chashina did in this video at 1:07?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq4LAeCaJ5Y


I don't think you have to be on toes, it is not mentioned anywhere
by the way, in the Errata it is mentioned that you can add a value of a total wave (+0.10) to any difficulty and your value will go up on 0.10. Actually it is not very clear how the difficulty should be connected to the wave but I hope we will see it more during the season


Thank you IH, so you mean that this wave up from the floor (like Chashina did in this video) is a difficulty 0,5?


The problem is that here she does not have any wave movement but it looks like a simple back bent with goin up. I would not count it.


I would say that in this example she gets help for rising from her hands, so it can't be considered valid.


Thank you!
So you mena that she can't have help of hands... but it is nothing said about it in criteria... But if she had a wave movement and didn't have help of hands, would it be valid?
I think my big question is if you can do difficulties applyed to a criteria that looks different than in pictures..


I think that without the help of the hands it should be difficulty n. 33E of the Code: it's written that the difficulty can be realised with or without truck bent back
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Iva



Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed, 21-Jan-2009 4:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Invisible Hedgehog wrote:
yes in the Errata it is mentioned that you can add walkover ONLY to 6.2.6 and 6.2.4


i was looking at that today , it looks like that Errata allows any kind of rotation to be applied to 6.2.6., right? but it doesn't say that note after 6.2.6. in COP about general criteria is cancelled. I'm confused here, which one note is right?
and if it's ok to add rotation, will it be 0.2 or 0.3 ( from the floor) as per general criteria? then if to arch back-chest stand which is 0.7 itself add walkover from the floor for 0.3, so it 's 1.0.
could you please clarify this?
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CoCoNuTsiopatHic



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 821

PostPosted: Wed, 21-Jan-2009 18:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iva wrote:
Invisible Hedgehog wrote:
yes in the Errata it is mentioned that you can add walkover ONLY to 6.2.6 and 6.2.4


i was looking at that today , it looks like that Errata allows any kind of rotation to be applied to 6.2.6., right? but it doesn't say that note after 6.2.6. in COP about general criteria is cancelled. I'm confused here, which one note is right?
and if it's ok to add rotation, will it be 0.2 or 0.3 ( from the floor) as per general criteria? then if to arch back-chest stand which is 0.7 itself add walkover from the floor for 0.3, so it 's 1.0.
could you please clarify this?


My understanding is that they no longer want difficulties from the flexibilities category to be static positions--they want them to show some kind of movement aka "a dynamic quality" or whatever it says. Therefore, the purposes of the walkovers and rotations now seem to be only to add a phase of movement into the static positions. From what it says, I don't think you can add a rotation to the Angel lift to Chest stand since it already demonstrates movement.

So are walkovers into Back scales still valid? And what about the walkovers into Back scale turns which they do have pictured in the CoP? I haven't seen those elements said to be deleted in the erratas.
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Iva



Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed, 21-Jan-2009 18:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

walkovers + back scale are still valid since they haven't cancelled them in Errata, besides those are uder 6.2.4.


if now in that note they are saying that all flexibillity difficulties must have a dynamic character, does it mean that all "static" difficulties what are in COP table (like 11A, 12B , 16 C and D) for flexibillities are not valid anymore?

note for 31D and F: does it mean that in case of unstable balance of apparatus legs can be stationary? Are you reading it same way?
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CoCoNuTsiopatHic



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 821

PostPosted: Wed, 21-Jan-2009 20:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iva wrote:

if now in that note they are saying that all flexibillity difficulties must have a dynamic character, does it mean that all "static" difficulties what are in COP table (like 11A, 12B , 16 C and D) for flexibillities are not valid anymore?


By themselves they are not valid as difficulties, but with a different entrance like a walkover or coming up from the floor, or maybe from a total body wave (not sure about that one), they are valid difficulties.

Quote:
note for 31D and F: does it mean that in case of unstable balance of apparatus legs can be stationary? Are you reading it same way?


Correct, but the balance has to be on the legs and not on the back of the neck.
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Iva



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Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu, 22-Jan-2009 4:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess i'm reading too much lately Smile i'm more and more confused

why are you saying that walkover can be added only to 6.2.4 and 6.2.6?
in that note to general criteria it says that "... it gives the possibility to coordinate 6.2.4 and 6.2.6 with any type of rotation" right? not that rotation can be added only to those 2 groups.
so from my understanding general criteria can be applied to the rest of the difficulties, then walkover waveup is valid.
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Invisible Hedgehog



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat, 24-Jan-2009 19:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

reply to the last message : you should read the posts here which have already mentioned that the TC changed it's mind and you can see it in the Errata. It is NOT possible to combine walkover to these types of difficulties.
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Tahnee
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PostPosted: Sun, 25-Jan-2009 1:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

But it has always said "general criteria for all groups of flexibilities". Although there were initially the 6.2.4 and 6.2.6. exceptions, this has now been changed, and that 0.2 for adding rotation is still under general criteria - there is nothing that says specifically ONLY 6.2.4 and 6.2.6 may use this bonus.

It is all quite unclear though still... Neutral
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Attitude



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sun, 25-Jan-2009 18:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

what counts as rotation for D2 without throw:

illusion?
penche rotation?
tonneau?
front split with side roll on the floor?

errata says:

 corps en rotation autour de l’axe vertical (sur 1 pied) ou l’axe horizontal (sur 1 pied ou sur 1 ou 2
mains):
o pour toutes les difficultés de pivot ;

o pour tous les éléments corporels quelque soit la position du tronc ou de la jambe libre, réalisés en rotation autour de l’axe vertical/horizontal sur 1 pied (360º au minimum) ou rotation autour de l’axe
horizontal (renversement) sur une 1 ou 2 mains ;

o pour tous les formes de sauts dont la base ne présente pas la rotation de tout le corps (minimum 180º)
- (vol + rotation = 0,1+0,1) -
o pour tous les sauts « jetés en tournant » (vol + rotation = 0,1+0,1)
o pour le grand écart facial avec flexion du tronc en arrière ( 180º au minimum) (corps en souplesse +
rotation = 0,1+0,1)

what counts as rotation for D2 with throw:

illusion?
penche rotation?
tonneau?
front split with side roll on the floor?

cop says nothing about required criterions for rotation in mastery with throw
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sofia



Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun, 25-Jan-2009 18:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is so stupid!!!!there are not high value flexibilities....to use...
I hope they will change their minds.
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CoCoNuTsiopatHic



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sun, 25-Jan-2009 20:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flexibilities that can count for rotation:
1) Anything with a singular, complete 360 degree turn
2) Back scales with 180 or 360 degree turns

A question just popped into my head, although I bet the answer is 'No': If you were to perform a flexibility difficult on toe even though it's not necessary and wouldn't change the value, could you write it for D2 value as "in a balance" as well?

Again, I'm guessing the answer is no, but thought I'd toss it out there anyway. Smile
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Tahnee
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PostPosted: Sun, 25-Jan-2009 23:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

CoCoNuTsiopatHic wrote:
Flexibilities that can count for rotation:
1) Anything with a singular, complete 360 degree turn
2) Back scales with 180 or 360 degree turns

A question just popped into my head, although I bet the answer is 'No': If you were to perform a flexibility difficult on toe even though it's not necessary and wouldn't change the value, could you write it for D2 value as "in a balance" as well?

Again, I'm guessing the answer is no, but thought I'd toss it out there anyway. Smile


I would think no, and that the only crossing over of categories would occur with leaps of rotation, where you could claim both body movements..
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