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Petition for Transparency in Judging

 
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Would you support this Petition?
Yes
83%
 83%  [ 10 ]
No
16%
 16%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 12

Author Message
schuster47



Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Tue, 3-Sep-2013 13:35    Post subject: Petition for Transparency in Judging Reply with quote

I think that we all know about the problem of transparency and fairness in RG.

Recent FIG decisions on TC and judges although controversial and challenged in tribunals already brought the positive result of a fairly just World Championships in Kiev where gymnasts were judged based on what they do and not on where they come from.

While this is an important achievement it might not be sustainable as when old alliances are broken the new ones will be formed. We don't want the cronyism and favoritism find it's way back to the RG.

In my view, the only true and final way to promote justice in this sport is to make all the gymnasts cards and judges' marks available to the public.

RG is a technical and subjective sport. Even specialists sometimes cannot evaluate performance of a gymnast without seeing her card. Judges will not always agree on the fair evaluation of the routine. Without transparent procedure for marking this sport is bound to remain hostage to back-room bargains.

Today, when all the scoring and evaluation is done digitally, the information is readily available in the real time, and costs nothing except for the server space. Should there be a good will of FIG to be open about the procedures in this sport, they could implement it without significant costs.

Therefore, what we need is gymnasts' cards available for public scrutiny before the competition. And judges' marks, with the detailed presentation of which elements were counted or not and which deductions were applied, to be publicly available as they are produced. In short, we want to see what the TC and the Supervisor of the Competition sees.

This is the only way the general public and all those interested and involved in the RG can exercise public control over this sport.
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gymfan3



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 196
Location: kay ell

PostPosted: Tue, 3-Sep-2013 18:00    Post subject: Re: Petition for Transparency in Judging Reply with quote

schuster47 wrote:


In my view, the only true and final way to promote justice in this sport is to make all the gymnasts cards and judges' marks available to the public.



this idea, might have been considered/suggested long time ago?
anyone knows?

even if the FIG agree, will there be a strong protest by the federations..???


FIG knows that it is difficult to produce fair judgement..
quote frm tAA.com
"The human eye can take in only so much, and the judges’ seating positions aren’t always optimal. The situation is hard on the judges, who are easily under as much pressure as the athletes. Perhaps even more since they face pressure from both the FIG and their own federations. "

" the ultimate goal needs to be a correct evaluation of routines"
so
IRCOS was introduced to assist.. but Grandi decided to stop it bcause..

".. “They [the judges] were constantly watching routines in the past,” “it took far too long for the scores to come up.” A long wait for a score is annoying and holds up the competition. Plus, the delay always brings on the conspiracy theorists. “Oooh, what are they looking at? They must be cheating!”
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Janna



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 188
Location: West

PostPosted: Tue, 3-Sep-2013 21:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Public", meaning non-experts, should not have any access to gymnasts' sheets. With their unprofessional eye, spectators will only make the situation worse. Leave the sheets to experts!
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gymfan3



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 196
Location: kay ell

PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 2:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not that u distribute the form to spectators and ask them to judge, judging results can be made available to federations aft competitions.
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Janna



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 188
Location: West

PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 14:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

In my view, the only true and final way to promote justice in this sport is to make all the gymnasts cards and judges' marks available to the public.

What else could the spectators possibly do with the cards except judging?

However, a breakdown of scores, seeing what judge gave what, could be helpful.
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gymfan3



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 196
Location: kay ell

PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 15:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

the majority of spectators on the stand won't have a clue about the COP, so it is pointless to give them the forms.

" available to the public " can be - the results are available from the FIG website after the competition for anyone who is interested.

FIG won't agree to this idea maybe becos.. it is to protect the judges.

FIG understands that the judges have limits, it is not possible for the judges to scrutinize a routine 100% just by watching it once.

The judges will inevitably miss out some parts of the routine. ( when they are checking the forms during a routine? do they do that? or they watch the routine entirely, store it in their head how many mistakes/errors made etc then only double check the form ?)

So it is not able to determine whether a judge intentionally 'missed' or inevitably 'missed '.

That is why IRCOS was introduced.
If the judges are given enough time to view the video, there is no reason to 'miss' some parts of the routine.

If RG format can change to something like this.
After all the gymnast performed , then all the scores will be displayed.
Judges will have a limited time to check IRCOS.

will the spectator or IOC accept this format?
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