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2009-2012 COP Pivots
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Anna Kull



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat, 20-Dec-2008 8:45    Post subject: 2009-2012 COP Pivots Reply with quote

Here is the topic for pivots
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OOTCHY



Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat, 20-Dec-2008 12:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

in the cop ..1.2.6 which says that( any difficulty performed lower than the entered in the form will not be counted except for pivots and flexibility) does this means that when i write in the sheet that the gymnast performs double turn of a pivot say attitude pivot and in the competition she didnt complete it and she performed only one turn of this sttitude so the judge will count this one turn... but how come this will happen in flex
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Marts85



Joined: 20 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun, 21-Dec-2008 1:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think with the slow turns.. if you write one turn and you complete just half, it can be counted
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OOTCHY



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PostPosted: Sun, 21-Dec-2008 1:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yes maybe and i think also for the penche pivot performed on the heel
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Tahnee
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PostPosted: Sun, 21-Dec-2008 2:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also for illusions...say you write a triple, but only do a double, the double will count (provided its executed cleanly). Wink

I'm fairly sure this downgrading is in place for any flexibility with rotation.
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CoCoNuTsiopatHic



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Mon, 22-Dec-2008 0:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marts85 wrote:
i think with the slow turns.. if you write one turn and you complete just half, it can be counted


No, that's not what it says. They won't give you credit for 180 if you write 360 and fail to complete 360.

However, it does say this, and I'm not quite sure what it means:

Quote:
4.1.5 During the difficulties with “Slow Turn”, the body must not “bounce” on the vertical axis with an up and down movement of the trunk and the shoulders. This incorrect technique cancels the value of the “Slow Turn” + execution fault.


Do the words "cancels the value of the Slow Turn" mean they will still credit the base value of the balance shape? Or are the words "Slow Turn" meant to represent the whole difficulty itself, meaning all of the value is cancelled?
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CoCoNuTsiopatHic



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PostPosted: Mon, 22-Dec-2008 1:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

And going back to this from the last thread:

Quote:
the code says we can perform the same pivot twice , one in combination and one isolated or both in two different combination

but the code says that we CAN'T repeat the same shape of a difficulty , based on th relationship between trunks and leg too

so if we referr to only "trunk-leg" and not legS :

the pivot cossack
the arabesque forward
the arabesque forward in progression (up and down)

are the same shape because they have the same relationship trunk-leg because the leg below that makes difference , doesn't count.


for the balance is the same:

cossack
arabesque standing
arabesque on knee

have the same relationship?


No, no. The support leg is taken into account in the relationship between the trunk and the legs. All of the examples listed there can all be performed in the same exercise.
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Themis



Joined: 02 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed, 24-Dec-2008 3:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you feel about support leg bending progressively and from bent to extended? Same or different?
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Sumpan-Ida



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun, 28-Dec-2008 16:21    Post subject: Fouette-pivot Reply with quote

Since your are not allowed to repeat shape:
Does that means that you can only do ONE fouetee pivot in each routine?

fouette 360 degrees + fouete 720 degrees

You cannot do another fouette-pivot
360 degree + 1080 degrees

Have I understood it correct sice the shape is the same all through the entire pivot?

Thank you!
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Tahnee
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PostPosted: Sun, 28-Dec-2008 23:09    Post subject: Re: Fouette-pivot Reply with quote

Sumpan-Ida wrote:
Since your are not allowed to repeat shape:
Does that means that you can only do ONE fouetee pivot in each routine?

fouette 360 degrees + fouete 720 degrees

You cannot do another fouette-pivot
360 degree + 1080 degrees

Have I understood it correct sice the shape is the same all through the entire pivot?

Thank you!


I would believe so, since you can't do a, say, double attitude pivot and a triple also.
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Themis



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PostPosted: Mon, 29-Dec-2008 1:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Tahnee I agree. Only one fouetté pivot from group 47 (passé et à lhorizontale). But there is no problem to do another fouetté pivot from group 48 (jambe libre à l’horizontale ou plus haute). Next question ... How many fouetté pivots from group 48? Only one? or one horizontal front one attitude one high up et cetera?
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ybalka_



Joined: 10 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed, 31-Dec-2008 17:30    Post subject: Re: Fouette-pivot Reply with quote

Tahnee wrote:
Sumpan-Ida wrote:
Since your are not allowed to repeat shape:
Does that means that you can only do ONE fouetee pivot in each routine?

fouette 360 degrees + fouete 720 degrees

You cannot do another fouette-pivot
360 degree + 1080 degrees

Have I understood it correct sice the shape is the same all through the entire pivot?

Thank you!


I would believe so, since you can't do a, say, double attitude pivot and a triple also.


So a series of 4/5 double fouettés like the ones we've been watching in many routines under the 2008 code, won't be allowed?? Neutral Neutral They looked quite impressive when well performed...it's a pity... Confused
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Anna Kull



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed, 31-Dec-2008 17:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

CoCoNuTsiopatHic wrote:
Marts85 wrote:
i think with the slow turns.. if you write one turn and you complete just half, it can be counted


No, that's not what it says. They won't give you credit for 180 if you write 360 and fail to complete 360.

However, it does say this, and I'm not quite sure what it means:

Quote:
4.1.5 During the difficulties with “Slow Turn”, the body must not “bounce” on the vertical axis with an up and down movement of the trunk and the shoulders. This incorrect technique cancels the value of the “Slow Turn” + execution fault.


Do the words "cancels the value of the Slow Turn" mean they will still credit the base value of the balance shape? Or are the words "Slow Turn" meant to represent the whole difficulty itself, meaning all of the value is cancelled?


Alltough I'm not an expert I think that I can clarify your understanding question: "Cancel the value of a slow turne" must mean that the difficulty is not counted if it is a slow turne which will be the case obviously as this talks about slow turnes in particular.
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CoCoNuTsiopatHic



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PostPosted: Wed, 31-Dec-2008 20:57    Post subject: Re: Fouette-pivot Reply with quote

ybalka_ wrote:


So a series of 4/5 double fouettés like the ones we've been watching in many routines under the 2008 code, won't be allowed?? Neutral Neutral They looked quite impressive when well performed...it's a pity... Confused


No, a gymnast can do as many Fouette pivots as she wants in the same sequence. She just can't perform multiple different sequences of the Fouette turns again and again, a la Dinara Gimatova.

Actually, I suppose it could be possible to perform two different Fouette sequences as long as one is done in Passe with the leg in front and the other is done in Passe with the leg to the side. Similarly, I think you could use different sequences of horizontal leg Fouette turns as long as the leg is in a different shape for each sequence, but I think you'd need a different number of turns/revolutions for each sequence in order to have them counted as a different difficulty. This is because all of the shapes for horizontal leg Fouettes share the same box and use the same symbol.

Does anyone disagree with that?
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beatricevivaldi



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed, 7-Jan-2009 22:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I do a composite pivot, can I reuse then singularly these 2 pivots which compose it?
And can I do 2 composite pivots, which share one pivot but which have the other one different?

Thanks Love
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