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COP to be revamped
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Jonathan



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 2189
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Wed, 4-May-2011 18:46    Post subject: COP to be revamped Reply with quote

http://www.fig-gymnastics.com/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,5187-187975-19728-44545-313420-17968-5233-layout188-205197-news-item,00.html
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Eulucil



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Location: Spain

PostPosted: Wed, 4-May-2011 19:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dance sequences and more artistic expression with the apparatus sounds good Smile
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*Kalinka*



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 2171
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Wed, 4-May-2011 20:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmh... I fear that Rhythmic Gymnastics will become even more subjective than now.
I've never liked Bruno Grandi and his ideas. He is only worried about making Rhythmic Gymnastics more and more spectacular, he isn't even interested to gymnasts (for example, he didn't hesitate to encourage the removal of the rope).

He always laments about the gymnasts who drop the apparatus and then they get a good score. According to him, a gymnast who performs an almost perfect routine but drops the apparatus should not even take the third place! He says that this would be unacceptable, an injustice of the worst kind! Stupid And he says that each one of us must accept both victory and defeat. Such is the essence of sport!, even in Olympics, but he should know that gymnasts sacrifice their entire life for Olympics, so he can't really expect that gymnasts who made a stupid and unfortunate mistake (like the one that Kabaeva did in Sydney) accept sportingly to lose a medal! Shocked
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cidlover



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 861
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 2:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say I found that press release to be pretty bad (what else is new?).

Considering that he speaks on behalf of the public opinion majority, I wonder where this majority stands on rope's use in RG.
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latvy6



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 2737
Location: For Uni - Boston, USA; Hometown - San Francisco, USA

PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 3:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Our gymnasts are artists of the truest kind. Let us give them a stage and the props necessary to expressing their greatest talent!"

Rolling Eyes I agree Mr. Grandi, but the way you always try to make this a reality is just...bullocks.

I agree that there should be a bigger penalty for dropping apparatus, but it depends...a really stupid mistake is still a mistake. This is sports, and in the essence of sports, why would we award someone with a mistake? I think it depends on the content of their routine vs. the mistakes they made. I find it rather ridiculous that one gymnast who performs their routine perfectly doesn't get a medal while a gymnast who drops their apparatus more than once gets to stand on the podium because their risk elements were more...well, "difficult"

and I agree with cidlover about the whole "public opinion" thing...because obviously someone else out there, and apparently a lot of them, don't like the rope apparatus.
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Truebluesea



Joined: 11 Nov 2009
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Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 4:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The President intends to reduce the number of judges within the discipline and evaluate a given element one time only per exercise.

What does it means?

Of course that for him "dropping apparatus" is unacceptable - that's what lay people of the circus notice. Why not to point out those extremely dirty and awarded gymnasts? The Darias or even Kanaeva rarely drop an apparatus, so by his logic this is more acceptable than they dropping...
It's a hard sport to understand for those who aren't following it, I know. But always try to adapt it for lay people is rather bad for those who are involved with it. See as example the rope removal - I dont know a gymnast who liked it.
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dalit



Joined: 14 Jun 2007
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Location: Israel

PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 6:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read his speech and i quite i agree with most of his statements.(especially with the statement that starts with the words" to avoid monotony....'")

I don't think that he meant to say that if gymnast dropped her apparatus she can't win .
The way i understood this part of his speech is that he doesn't want that the results will be decided before the competitions,he wants that till the last minute of the competitions everything will be able to happen.
While i can understand the criticism of some people about Kabeava's bronze medal in 2000 because she made a big mistake and others that did clean routines were ranked after her .
But the COP has changed since 2000-while in 2000 the most important score was the EX.-10 points max and it was half (!) of the total mark .The TV and the AV were only 5 points each and most of the top gymnasts got the max there-5 points,so actually a big mistake in the EX. was really cruel.
But,today the EX. mark is only third from the total mark and not all the top gymnasts start from a big score in the A+D. So it's just fair that a gymnast with very difficult routines will win even if she dropped in one of her routines..
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Tashik



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 7:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please compare this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7ctnwuYl7U&playnext=1&list=PL9BD3655BE7475619

with this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbiiBjAFC0o

The same gymnast. Different CoPs. What would you like to see? What gives you emotions? The CoP is forming the programs.
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 1733
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 14:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta say that I agree with the 'drop' quote of Grandi. I won't be popular with this, but I always thought that punishing drops more severely help the so-called "laymen" - and sports is not only for the ones who are insiders.
A drop is easy to see, understand and if it gets punished more severely, it gives a more unpredictable competition, which should be useful.
Not that it's 100% fair on gymnasts but it is something that helps sorting.
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*Kalinka*



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 15:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalit wrote:

I don't think that he meant to say that if gymnast dropped her apparatus she can't win .

Unfortunately Bruno Grandi sayd this in the Italian TV.
And, anyway, I understand that the public would enjoy more RG if drops were penalized more than now, but we must think to the gymnasts too! It's not fair that a gymnast who performs a perfect routine, but she drops the apparatus, must take a small score!
And there are other mistakes, not only the dropping of the apparatus! What about losing the balance, for example? Bruno Grandi doesn't even mention it!
And I think it would be stupid to penalize drops so much, because in this way gymnasts would perform easier routines to reduce the risk of dropping the apparatus, and so we would have very boring routines!
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Bluebell



Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 68
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PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 16:57    Post subject: cop Reply with quote

deleted.

Last edited by Bluebell on Sat, 4-Feb-2012 16:42; edited 1 time in total
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Prescilla



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 17:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Kalinka* wrote:


And I think it would be stupid to penalize drops so much, because in this way gymnasts would perform easier routines to reduce the risk of dropping the apparatus, and so we would have very boring routines!

That 's exactly what I thought! Why to even risk?! Why to try to catch the ball with your feet or back or ...you can just do a simple routine, just more dancing steps (is that what impresses the public? ) . It's not the criteria, all aspects should be evaluated.Difficulty must be a big plus+ artistic side (fluidity, harmony with music)+ clean execution. All of it should be taken into account.
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Truebluesea



Joined: 11 Nov 2009
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Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 21:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prescilla wrote:
*Kalinka* wrote:
And I think it would be stupid to penalize drops so much, because in this way gymnasts would perform easier routines to reduce the risk of dropping the apparatus, and so we would have very boring routines!

That 's exactly what I thought! Why to even risk?! Why to try to catch the ball with your feet or back or ...you can just do a simple routine, just more dancing steps (is that what impresses the public? ) . It's not the criteria, all aspects should be evaluated.Difficulty must be a big plus+ artistic side (fluidity, harmony with music)+ clean execution. All of it should be taken into account.

Exactely the same here.
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ybalka_



Joined: 10 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu, 5-May-2011 22:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truebluesea wrote:
Prescilla wrote:
*Kalinka* wrote:
And I think it would be stupid to penalize drops so much, because in this way gymnasts would perform easier routines to reduce the risk of dropping the apparatus, and so we would have very boring routines!

That 's exactly what I thought! Why to even risk?! Why to try to catch the ball with your feet or back or ...you can just do a simple routine, just more dancing steps (is that what impresses the public? ) . It's not the criteria, all aspects should be evaluated.Difficulty must be a big plus+ artistic side (fluidity, harmony with music)+ clean execution. All of it should be taken into account.

Exactely the same here.


Back in the 90s a drop of apparatus left you away from the podium, and believe me when I say they had REAL risks in their throws.

Haven't you think in a code that encourages risks and penalizes drops at the same time? if gymnasts as you say did their routines easier so not to drop the apparatus, that would be actually a reason to leave them out of the podium, who can win with an easy (and therefore boring) routine??? Rolling Eyes

so, or you take the chance or you are out of the medals, that's what the code should encourage. There's no need to perform one hundred of difficulties the half of which are going to be poorly performed ( as the 100% of gymnasts do nowadays, yes kanaeva included), I think people would appreciate much more a beautiful and difficult well perfomed throw than see how many pivots kondakova or X is able to perform, and which is worse, on a plain foot... Stupid
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Truebluesea



Joined: 11 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Fri, 6-May-2011 2:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

ybalka_ wrote:
Haven't you think in a code that encourages risks and penalizes drops at the same time? if gymnasts as you say did their routines easier so not to drop the apparatus, that would be actually a reason to leave them out of the podium, who can win with an easy (and therefore boring) routine??? Rolling Eyes

I respect the way you judge it, of course! But sorry, imo you're misssing something...
Let me take as example Merkulova's routines. Who in this freaking world would dare to say that with those simple routines with no big risks and apparatus handling AT ALL she could win something? And yes, she won something. Miteva's gorgeous routines rarely gets 28+ scores and what? Merkulova at her first competitions got those 28's.
RG is so $$$ubjective...
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