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*rotkwicca*



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1705

PostPosted: Sat, 4-Sep-2010 23:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now this is something I noticed ages ago. And I try to revive the good old debate by occasionally posting a long post with often critical opinion on certain topics, but there is never any chance of anyone to even notice mine, or FaerieDevilish's, or anybody else's meaningfull post when it's drown into seas and oceans of chitchat, pointless discussions and blindly praising the winning gymnasts. There is nothing more on this topic I haven't already said. No matter how bad the situation is, I will always try to start or contribute to a debate when i feel at least remotely competent enough to express an opinion that has some substance in it.
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andres



Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Fri, 17-Sep-2010 4:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

The forum is dying due to over moderation , when i signed up ( 2005 ) the forum was nice but later at 2007 , every time the post are edited without any reason , that discourage a lot and even discourage to keep in on the forum.

in my case , some misunderstanding and misinterpretation on some reply that i wrote end discouraging me to write replies .

OK is good moderate but sometimes no allow a universal human right ; the right to expression in a free way also think that is ok say thanks you but the idea is participate and due to the over moderation and no freedom of expression are keeping out to the persons that really want to participate here.
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Gabby



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571

PostPosted: Sat, 18-Sep-2010 2:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

over moderation??... I really don't think that's is the problem... Mods never interfers in a conversation unless there're some nasty things going on (like people insulting each other, for example)... I really like the mods' job until now, if you are here for a while now, you could see that our mods mostly don't even participate in the "conversations" nowadays, they were all active posters until a very small gruop of people "took over" the forum with their chitchat & pointless discussions, as rotwika posted before....... I wish they could erase all those meaningless +1s, +10000s if they're not followed by an argument Rolling Eyes
... In fact, I wish the section Events&Results had more moderation, threads on every competition are created moths before the actual competition takes place, and reaches at least 5pages with no info whatsoever, then when the competition starts and I try to look for the results.................... Rolling Eyes .......... well, I have to look over pages and pages of: who's going? Gymast X will be here!! cool!!, etc etc... I wish we had a little order there, one thread for comments like the above mentioned (I've nothing against them, honestly, is just they make a little bit difficult to find JUST the results) and another thread with ONLY the final scores..... I have to point out that I really enjoy the little comments while the competition takes place, like GymnastX threw the ball out of the carpet, and things like that....
... Another thing.... I know this is just my opinion, but I think the Off Topic section could be cleaned more often... I know that threads that reach 100 pages are erased, BUT who's gonna read 100 pages of Topic for useless posts, What time is in your country, What are you listening now, etc, etc.... even if someone is really bored, I don't think anybody reads more than 25 pages of that...
... gotta go... I'll finish my post later, sorry...
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Elodie
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PostPosted: Sat, 18-Sep-2010 16:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

andres wrote:
The forum is dying due to over moderation


That's not true. There's no real discussions anymore, or at least they're becoming fewer and fewer. People want news! Not read the same group of people's boring comments, pointless comments or chitchat. Who wants to read page after page with "Yes", "Thanks dear" and all those comments consisting of only a smiley face???

That is what's killing this forum and I think it's sad. It's making me loose interest in this forum.
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andres



Joined: 29 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat, 18-Sep-2010 19:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elodie that is right too , i read some replies and are the same , without content and makes no very attractive the discussion , about over moderation i mean by example open a topic and is locked and closed due to there is a post similar or post thumbnails the pictures, if the problem is bandwidth Alexander should invest in other server with more bandwidth .

Also sometimes some replies are misinterpreted too and i read some replies that i no know what pretend , pretend that that user be banned just because somebody misunderstood the sense or their reply or comment, is ok express but with respect but some persons thinks that because a comment touched deep to somebody without say any offense is enough motivation for claim that these user be banned

everybody wants post and replies with content but with real content and meaning and that enrich the opinion ,discussions and the forum content but somebody is doing something for correct it and give the example ?

Erase comments and topics are not the solution

By the way i wanna change the email where i be notified and appear error like that my email address is banned and my new email address is new since 2 months ago i signed up on AOL , post the problem here since 2 months ago and yet i have not any solution to my problem .

if need some help for that the forum get out of the sunset and return the magic of the past , can rely on me, i am expressing my willingness to help .
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2224
Location: Stars Hollow, Connecticut

PostPosted: Tue, 5-Oct-2010 4:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don´t know.....but I think is unfair to exclusively blame the thank you posters of the current sutiation of the forum......

I also believe over moderation is one of the reason why this forum is dying, and moderators just don´t seem to think they are a part of the problem too.

some posters are having a nice conversation....and maybe even heated discussion and then moderator comes and asks to stay on topic.......my God.

for example in Godunko´s topic..........................so lets say we wanted to keep discussion there but we couldn´t do it because we were going OT, so someone goes and opens another topic, but hey wait a minute!!!!!....... there´s aready a topic about the Deruiginas, one about Viner, one about Kostina, one about Vitrichenko, one about Serebrianskaya, one about Mazur and so is like that with everyone else we were talking about in there so the new topic would be closed, so do we have to go to each one of those topics and try to continue the conversation??....oh but yeah, we would have to find the topics first, and finding the one you want is not easy....there are like 5 pages of topics like "who´s leotard" "musics" favorite gymnast" most beautiful gymnast" . it took me ages to find Zhukova´s topic and I wanted to post something else on Tchachina´s topic but I didn´t even found it............(talking about gymnasts and groups, the rest is great)

I think this doesn´t "encourages"(sp?) to have a non thank you conversation, for example I wanted to know why Black and White, Masha Angeleeva thought about Kostina vs Skaldina and Kostina vs Timochenko, and more about the Dalit and Lipkovskaya/Zaripova thing.



or what about new posters that open a topic asking for a video, a photo, value of an element or whatever, and the topic gets closed asap, the new poster doesn´t even gets the answer he/she wanted and that poster never comes back.........what if the forum is losing a very valuable member there??

also some valuable posters left this forum before *the same group of people´s boring comments* (quoting Elodie*) started to show up.

and for example posters like Kaja left because this overmoderation thing............I surely remember her complaining often about it even before she left and also in gymworld she said something about it.

or what, is this the fault of the same group of people?? ......oh please.... give me a break! Rolling Eyes


people that are complaining could try to "enrich"(don´t know what is the word in english Embarassed) this forum, there always has to be someone that follows the conversation..............what is there to lose anyways?, no one can answer you or an interesting discussion can come up *shrug*

Quote:
about over moderation i mean by example open a topic and is locked and closed due to there is a post similar or post thumbnails the pictures, if the problem is bandwidth Alexander should invest in other server with more bandwidth
.

I agree with this.
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Storm
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue, 5-Oct-2010 6:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet so let's the forum go for a month without moderation and see how much improves. I'm sure the people that asked us to keep discussion more on topic won't complain at all, like ibalka did about some competition topic.

by the way, we provide the right place where to ask for people's question, before closing it. we don't simply shut it down.
AND we have never closed a topic cause there were not thumbnails in it but just removed the images, so please stick to the truth.

I'd just to point out that a free flux conversation switching from a WC to a gossip then back to old stories of the gymnasts then back to the WC in the same topic will NEVER EVER happen cause loosing moderation is as bad as having too much.
But since we mods are the problem I'd suggest truly to go unmoderated for a month, have fun.

I'm taking off for a month, then maybe two or three to see after how many months will be impossible to find informations between highly satisfied random conversations.

Be it, be happy.
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue, 5-Oct-2010 7:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

about thumbnails, I didn´t delete that part, sorry, I meant I agree with andrés on the "Alexander should invest in other server".
like Jewgenija said there are forums that have a "thank you" button in them, that is a nice idea.

and no Storm that is not what I tried to say..........is not about leaving the forum without moderation to see how it improves, after 2 or more years do you think the valuable posters will come back??

the thank you posters can go away for a month.............would this make it better?? would thay instantly bring old valuable posters back??


I never said you moderators were THE problem, I said that were a part of the problem but you don´t wanna see it.

I have to say that I think the damage is done (from both sides) but we can make it better

and I say it again:
Quote:
people that are complaining could try to "enrich"(don´t know what is the word in english Embarassed ) this forum, there always has to be someone that follows the conversation..............what is there to lose anyways?, no one can answer you or an interesting discussion can come up


is not like I ever had any highly interesting to say or start a fight that I regret until now Embarassed.
but there are always comments that are worth reading and reply to, I do believe this forum can change, but for what I see/read most of us seem to have a pessimistic attitude about it Neutral


Quote:

I'd just to point out that a free flux conversation switching from a WC to a gossip then back to old stories of the gymnasts then back to the WC in the same topic will NEVER EVER happen cause loosing moderation is as bad as having too much.

I didn´t understand this part
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Kata



Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 324
Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Tue, 5-Oct-2010 9:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tchachinafan wrote:

some posters are having a nice conversation....and maybe even heated discussion and then moderator comes and asks to stay on topic.......my God.

for example in Godunko´s topic..........................so lets say we wanted to keep discussion there but we couldn´t do it because we were going OT, so someone goes and opens another topic, but hey wait a minute!!!!!....... there´s aready a topic about the Deruiginas, one about Viner, one about Kostina, one about Vitrichenko, one about Serebrianskaya, one about Mazur and so is like that with everyone else we were talking about in there so the new topic would be closed, so do we have to go to each one of those topics and try to continue the conversation??....oh but yeah, we would have to find the topics first, and finding the one you want is not easy....there are like 5 pages of topics like "who´s leotard" "musics" favorite gymnast" most beautiful gymnast" . it took me ages to find Zhukova´s topic and I wanted to post something else on Tchachina´s topic but I didn´t even found it............(talking about gymnasts and groups, the rest is great)

I think this doesn´t "encourages"(sp?) to have a non thank you conversation, for example I wanted to know why Black and White, Masha Angeleeva thought about Kostina vs Skaldina and Kostina vs Timochenko, and more about the Dalit and Lipkovskaya/Zaripova thing.



I couldn't agree more.

Storm wrote:


I'd just to point out that a free flux conversation switching from a WC to a gossip then back to old stories of the gymnasts then back to the WC in the same topic will NEVER EVER happen (...)


And that is exactly what keeps users from starting discussions, as Tchachinafan said. The Godunko tpoic is a great example of this. I haven't seen any other board that doesn't allow free discussion. You'd rather have topics strictly kept in order but only containing nothing but ' thank you's, 'good luck's, 'she's great', she's my faveourite' etc. comments than a little "chaos" inside the topic from which users like me can learn something new about the history of the sport?
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Storm
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue, 5-Oct-2010 11:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fine, since you want free flux conversation as a possible solution for the forum go for it. I me myself am not going to block them.

but then I'd like to have a random check with everyone to know if they can still find something in the forum and if everyone is happy with it.

I thought that a forum was something different from a chat but seems impossible to avoid this equation, so let's talk with no boundaries.
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue, 5-Oct-2010 12:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Storm wrote:
Fine, since you want free flux conversation as a possible solution for the forum go for it. I me myself am not going to block them.

but then I'd like to have a random check with everyone to know if they can still find something in the forum and if everyone is happy with it.

I thought that a forum was something different from a chat but seems impossible to avoid this equation, so let's talk with no boundaries.


I still find your answer to be deffensive.


I don´t think Kata nor I ever implied that the free flux conversation is THE solution to the problem, but at lest we´re tying to suggest something....

I really don´t see the problem at all when something else comes up in a different topic, if that something else is a good discussion, a good argument or interesting.


like Kata said......

Another exmple: ...a poster comes here trying to find who is Kondakova´s coach and goes to her topic and starts reading things that are not Kondakova related but RG related and that actually in some way can increase her/his knowledge of this sport or maybe he/she is reading things that she/he already knew but some info is mistaken then he/she can come and correct and share more information in here.............I mean is that so bad? you really don´t think something like this is good for the forum? :S


I surely know that going through topics that went OT about a certain gymnast or whatever else topic lead me to learn some really interesting stuff about RG in this and other forums, and other sports forums overall.
ok maybe some people would get annoyed by reading info not related to what he/she wants to know, but that really would be like 1 out of 10, I mean.....afterall who doesn´t wants to learn?


or................. what is it that you guys want then?


I have read in this thread comments from the moderators saying things as "what happened to the real discussions" o "there is no real discussions anymore" or "I'd like to read serious and critical comment by people who knows what they are talking about and who can entertain us seriously"

who is to decide wheter if a conversation can entertain seriously or not?

or if its a real discussion or not??

I´m sorry but the way I interpretate this comments is as if you guys want only pure RG experts here..... Neutral
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Storm
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PostPosted: Tue, 5-Oct-2010 13:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that interesting informations are useful but I also believe that everyone should be able to find and get access without dropping on them by chance. you were lucky but not everyone browses a 400 posts conversation all the time, to find 10 useful and interesting posts.. so your info are lost. I'd be more for hystoric topics about RG Hystory divied for decades where to discuss gymnastic evoution as well as gymnasts issue, leaving the actual ones for info and news.
The problem is that for how good your division can be there will be always complainings, since poeple just wants to post wherever they like, no matter how much you think the problem off.

About what mods say, I think that I can still state my personal opinion, so if I say that I'd like posts that go a little bit deeper than "beautiful" is not as wanting ONLY rg experts, but people that can argue knowing how much an element is paid instead of giving a raw approximation of the score having the routine still to see, fixing it to the performance as you fix a dress to a doll, or that bring Viner's name in ALL the time, before even the competition starts..yes thank you. This is THE most inner wish as memeber for me now. I don't recall mods stopping people like tahnee nor people that just say"beautiful"from replying so it's just what I personally think as memeber and shouldn't have any weight on the forum itself. I'm not imposing it to anyone.

Sometimes I feel like everything started to sink when I became a mod, so probably I should stop doing it. I'm ashamed of course of stressing people, but the problem is that I hate mess to much. it ruins everything.


In the end again, have your try forum. Let's go more liberal and see what happens.
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ybalka_



Joined: 10 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue, 5-Oct-2010 14:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Storm wrote:
Sweet so let's the forum go for a month without moderation and see how much improves. I'm sure the people that asked us to keep discussion more on topic won't complain at all, like ibalka did about some competition topic..


Did I ever complain about something? don't remember! Laughing do you mean my previous post in this same topic? Wink
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed, 6-Oct-2010 4:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Storm wrote:


Sometimes I feel like everything started to sink when I became a mod, so probably I should stop doing it. I'm ashamed of course of stressing people, but the problem is that I hate mess to much. it ruins everything.


In the end again, have your try forum. Let's go more liberal and see what happens.



you´re just doing what you have to do and I think everyone here understands that, I have seen you interveening (sp?) in something when is going WAY out of hands and is all a lacuna of endless chitchat.


ok first of all lets not go to the extremes here, its not like it has to be the way I want it to be, you know..... I´m not Stella Angelova so my opinion is NOT the only one that matters Laughing Razz

we can only try to suggest something and see if most users and moderators agree, we have to find a consensus, it can´t be as I want it or as you want it.

my original point was to make you (mods) to realize or see that mods are also a part of the problem about the OT paranoia when things are getting good, that was it, but I think I made it clear that I don´t only want to complain about it but also suggest something to try to improve this forum.


Quote:
I believe that interesting informations are useful but I also believe that everyone should be able to find and get access without dropping on them by chance. you were lucky but not everyone browses a 400 posts conversation all the time, to find 10 useful and interesting posts.. so your info are lost. I'd be more for hystoric topics about RG Hystory divied for decades where to discuss gymnastic evoution as well as gymnasts issue, leaving the actual ones for info and news.
The problem is that for how good your division can be there will be always complainings, since poeple just wants to post wherever they like, no matter how much you think the problem off.


I think is a great option, but no one opens them, reciently in a topic (overlooked gymnast) I don´t remember wich user it was, but I think it was you the one that suggested to open a thread to post old videos so we could get the new poster interested in 80´s 90´s RG.that was just and idea because at the end no one opened it.


here what I suggest:
Gymnast and Groups section also having an order like videos, photos, leotards sections do.
and like you said leave the actual gymnasts´s topics for info, news discussion.

maybe create another section about RG in the past. "Blast from the Past" about 80´s 90´s RG and our RG stars of those years.

create subforums (sections) for the current important competition, like the World Championships, Euros and Olympics.


Quote:
About what mods say, I think that I can still state my personal opinion, so if I say that I'd like posts that go a little bit deeper than "beautiful" is not as wanting ONLY rg experts, but people that can argue knowing how much an element is paid instead of giving a raw approximation of the score having the routine still to see, fixing it to the performance as you fix a dress to a doll, or that bring Viner's name in ALL the time, before even the competition starts..yes thank you. This is THE most inner wish as memeber for me now. I don't recall mods stopping people like tahnee nor people that just say"beautiful"from replying so it's just what I personally think as memeber and shouldn't have any weight on the forum itself. I'm not imposing it to anyone.


I gotta say that this whole "overscored" and "underscored" or complaining about whatever gymnast high scores before even watching the routines annoys me more than anything in this board, but I´ve gotten used to it.
I have a thick skin when it comes to forums but this did bother me a lot.......


I say it again, we users and moderators have to come to an agreement, not only you and me.


and I want to finish by saying that I never once intended to diminish (is that the word?) the job the moderators do here.
I really like the fact that the photo, video, music, leos section is organized.

and even when it always cracks me up that when I write s e x y the word changed to "nice" or also some other words, I do underdstand that you have to protect the younger visitors, like Tom said it to me. I appreciate that because I´ve been in other forums where I hope a 12 year old is not reading some comments posted.
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akika10



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PostPosted: Wed, 6-Oct-2010 5:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this topic supposed to help? Or is it just here for complaints?

Honestly, I tried to delete some of my posts, stopped saying thank yous, delete my private messages, and try not to leave one word posts........I still think its a little unfair because sometimes that's all there is to say or that you want to say. (I don't even say much in real life) But it seems to irritate some moderators due to the 'waste of valuable space'.

I really stinks that I sometimes have to hesitate before I post something so I don't tick off a moderator........

I don't even know what to do anymore......maybe I should just ignore this topic because there are too many strings being pulled in different directions...........
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