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COP to be revamped
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Eulucil



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 524
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Mon, 19-Dec-2011 17:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

ybalka_ wrote:
*Kalinka* wrote:
canrgmom wrote:
Quote:
I know Zaragoza held the first course, I was at the organisation but I asked some people who wa in it about the new code...
I remember they told me, 9 body elements. Max value of single element 0.5. You can do combined elements (leap+balance) adding both values and 0.10 (eg. leap 0.3 and balance 0.2 = 0.6). About masteries there are M1 = 0.1, M2=0.2 and M3= 0.3.


Ashanty, if you are correct in your understanding of the planned changes - this does seem quite odd. Maybe they are planning to recalibrate all the values of elements so that, for example, a "J" difficulty would be valued at 0.5 instead of 1.0. I'm not sure how they would do this....

Well, of course they would change almost all the values. But it still looks very strange, because in this way body difficulty would be very unimportant. I hope they aren't planning to come back to the 10 system. Shocked



So, 9 body elements each of them worth 0.5 = 4.5 for D (considering the gymnast makes the top rated elements!) ?? . If you can add 0.1 for a combination there's only 0.5 (five possible combinations) left to reach 5 points, which leads to think we are getting back to 10.000 system? Is D going to be merged in with A like before? iis execution again the key of the score?...W-E-I-R-D.

Btw, I refuse to think a backscale pivot or a unheld back ring pivot or any beautiful element can be worth the same as thos ugly Weberian cossacks ??


Mmmm Let's see what they propose as a combination. Maybe balance combinations will be allowed (such as current ones), so one foot combinations will be emphatised. For instance split leat + ring balance, I don't know.

I'm so eager to know about the new COP, I don't like the current one. Pivots and walkovers are getting kind of repetitive.
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*Kalinka*



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed, 11-Jan-2012 17:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently a document about the news of 2013 COP was posted on Italian Federation website, it's only 3 pages long, but it is FULL of remarkable changes, such as the introduction of dance steps and the removal of Souplesse elements! And unfortunately the user who some time ago said there won't be a maximum score of D2 understood correctly! Shocked It's written in Italian, so it wouldn't be very useful if I posted it here, so I will try to translate it...

Reduction of the number of judges:
- 4 for Composition (C).
- 4 for Execution (E).

New subdivision in Composition and Execution of a RG routine:
1. Composition (C) (max 10 points):
- Body Elements (D) (max 9)
- Mastery of the apparatus (as in the past, but very simplified) (M) (without limit)
- Dynamic elements with rotation with throw (the old Risk) (min. 1)
- Sequence of dance steps (new component) (min. 1)
2. Execution (max 10 points):
- Artistic mistakes (they are approximately the same as the ones of the current Artistic value).
- Technical mistakes.

20 points is the maximum of the total score of the routine. By not giving a maximum Composition value we will avoid the risk that gymnasts will damage the artistic and the rhythmic part of the routine in order to "fill" the routine.

Reduction of the number of body elements: from 12 to 9, in order to emphasize all the other components of the routine (Dance, Risk, Mastery) according to technical-physical possibilities of gymnasts.

4 values of body elements, assembled in 5 groups, difficulties of 0.10, 0.20, 0.30, 0.40, 0.50 until a theoric maximum of 4.50 (with 9 elements of 0.50). The other 6.50 points must be used for other components of the Composition:
- 0.30, the value of the dance sequence.
- 0.50 the maximum value of the Risk (every rotation is worth 0.10).
- 0.20, 0.30, the maximum value of the Mastery.

3 categories of body elements, each category must be present with minimum 2 elements and maximum 4 elements:
- Jumps.
- Balances: on relevé or by using different parts of the body.
- Rotations: on toe (pivots) or by using different parts of the body.

Elimination of Souplesse, because they are considered as physical qualities and not a difficulty. We will put some of the current souplesses in Balances and in Rotations.

No difficulty or type of rotation/renversement, including chainées and tour-plongés in the Risk, can be repeated. This is in order to advantage the variety and in order to avoid the monotony in the routine.

Possibility of adding to the body difficulty: 1 tour lent (once), 1 wave or renversement (0.10 is the value of the connection).

Possibility of performing:
- Difficulties with multiple rotation (fouetté pivots count as one difficulty).
- Mixed difficulties: every component count as one difficulty (2 or more difficulties of the same category or of different categories) (the value of the combination is 0.10)

There is still an half page with some news for groups, I will post it later! Wink
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andres



Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Sat, 21-Jan-2012 0:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grazie a mille Kalinka per la traduzione dell la primma novita dell nuovo codice di punteggio...

I have the impression that will return like the old cop the 20 points.

if the difficulty value in the new COP is 0.50 as maximum that would mean that many elements that currently their value are 0.20 or 0.30 will eliminated of the cop in addition with the souplesses .

a good question would be that on dance steps what would be the maximum limit because ok that the dance steps be between the new components but excess of it would make lose the real objective of rhythmic gymnastics and seem more like a circus or a ballroom dance rather than a rhythmic routine.
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CoCoNuTsiopatHic



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 819

PostPosted: Sat, 21-Jan-2012 18:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this whole overhaul really necessary?! I consider myself pretty much satisfied with the 09-12 CoP and would only like to see just a few things changed.
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ed13



Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Posts: 260
Location: montpellier, france

PostPosted: Sat, 21-Jan-2012 22:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not pleased with the 09-12 cop , it has been made really for the russians, focus on flexibility and pivots . I mean the gap between the russian scores and everybody else is unpresented , especially with the individuals .

This COP , by inclunding artistic and difficulty in one score become less subjective i think it's a progress . But of course let's wait to see the final product Wink
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*Kalinka*



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun, 22-Jan-2012 10:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

About group:
Composition (max. 10 points):
- Body elements (max. 11, whereof min. 6 exchanges).
- Collaborations with and without exchanges represent Mastery (C), min. 6.
Individual Mastery doesn't exist anymore in group routines.
- Dynamic elements with rotation with throw (old Risk): max. 1.
- Sequence of dance steps (new component), about 8 seconds long, min. 1.

Exchanges difficulty:
- Value of the exchange difficulty: 0.20.
- Bonus for increasing the value of the exchange: distance 6 m, catch on the ground, throw and/or catch of the second apparatus, throw and/or catch out of sight or without hands, rotation elements during the flight of the apparatus, rethrow.

Value of collaborations:
0.10, 0.20, 0.30, 0.40, 0.50.

ed13 wrote:
im not pleased with the 09-12 cop , it has been made really for the russians, focus on flexibility and pivots . I mean the gap between the russian scores and everybody else is unpresented , especially with the individuals .

I think the problem is with judging, not with the COP. So I doubt a new code can solve the situation. On Wall Bash
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papillon.ephemere



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 29
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Sun, 22-Jan-2012 14:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Kalinka* wrote:
About group:
Composition (max. 10 points):
- Body elements (max. 11, whereof min. 6 exchanges).
- Collaborations with and without exchanges represent Mastery (C), min. 6.
Individual Mastery doesn't exist anymore in group routines.
- Dynamic elements with rotation with throw (old Risk): max. 1.
- Sequence of dance steps (new component), about 8 seconds long, min. 1.

Exchanges difficulty:
- Value of the exchange difficulty: 0.20.
- Bonus for increasing the value of the exchange: distance 6 m, catch on the ground, throw and/or catch of the second apparatus, throw and/or catch out of sight or without hands, rotation elements during the flight of the apparatus, rethrow.

Value of collaborations:
0.10, 0.20, 0.30, 0.40, 0.50


Shocked Wow, big differences with the actual CoP! Does it mean that we will have group exercices with exchanges, body elements, collaborations and dance steps everywhere to fill the 2min30? So you could basically do a group with 5 gymnasts who don't know how to move an appartus???
Looks no more like RG to me... Rolling Eyes
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*Kalinka*



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 2180
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PostPosted: Sun, 22-Jan-2012 15:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

papillon.ephemere wrote:

Shocked Wow, big differences with the actual CoP! Does it mean that we will have group exercices with exchanges, body elements, collaborations and dance steps everywhere to fill the 2min30? So you could basically do a group with 5 gymnasts who don't know how to move an appartus???
Looks no more like RG to me... Rolling Eyes

I agree. To remove individual mastery is definitely an extreme decision. It's true that nowadays in some group routines we have too many individual parts and it almost looks we are watching 5 gymnasts performing an individual routine, but it would have been sufficient to forbid routines like those, there is no need to remove individual mastery... Shocked
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CoCoNuTsiopatHic



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 819

PostPosted: Mon, 23-Jan-2012 0:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

ed13 wrote:
im not pleased with the 09-12 cop , it has been made really for the russians, focus on flexibility and pivots . I mean the gap between the russian scores and everybody else is unpresented , especially with the individuals.


I agree with what you say about these gaps, but I don't think the whole CoP needs to be overhauled. There are certain kinds of body difficulties for which the values are calculated in ways that allow gymnasts to rack up way more points than they can for other kinds of difficulties, and with only 12 difficulties to fill 10.0 points, the gymnasts are ultimately obligated to rely on these difficulties if they want to start from a 10.0.

But it is not that hard to readjust some of these values. I think a complete overhaul of the Code of Points is just going to bring a whole new set of unpredicted problems which will have people calling for drastic decisions to fix them. I think it would be better to continue with the Code of Points in relatively small changes every year or two which won't bring any issues which we're unable to predict.
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Justin



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 998
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PostPosted: Wed, 25-Jan-2012 11:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems we are going back to the '90's in many aspects.

As from what I understood from the suggested changes (thanks for the translation kalinka!), is that there will be more emphasis on the mastery of the apparatus, as it is limitless, while at the same time, dance sequence and risk elements are being reintroduced. In my perception, gymnasts or groups will have to choose between adding sequences at the expense of time that can be used for mastery and body elements instead.

To emphasize even more on this, the individual mastery in group routines apparently needs to be eliminated, which has its similarities with the 1997-2000 group COP, where there the Technical Component was max 4.000 (instead of 5.000) and the Artistic component was max 6.000 (instead of 5.000). However, I have the feeling that especially the artistic component is being overhauled at every single COP change...

So I am most curious how this will evolve over the upcoming months. How will a C-judge overseas each subdivision, I wonder... I know for some of the judges it was quite a relieve that there came a separation of D1, D2 and Artistic Values... And so, the idea of choreography and proper music usage belongs to the artistic mistakes now? Hmmm....

I hope we will get an answer soon...
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Tashik



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed, 25-Jan-2012 21:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Individual mastery in group can be done during the collaborations, I think.

Also in individual excersizes, mastery can be done during the dance steps
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Justin



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PostPosted: Wed, 25-Jan-2012 22:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that has to be done anyway, as otherwise the gymnast would get deduction for improper apparatus handling, i.e. static use.
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vn



Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Wed, 1-Feb-2012 11:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Kalinka* wrote:
Recently a document about the news of 2013 COP was posted on Italian Federation website, it's only 3 pages long, but it is FULL of remarkable changes, such as the introduction of dance steps and the removal of Souplesse elements! And unfortunately the user who some time ago said there won't be a maximum score of D2 understood correctly! Shocked It's written in Italian, so it wouldn't be very useful if I posted it here, so I will try to translate it...

Reduction of the number of judges:
- 4 for Composition (C).
- 4 for Execution (E).

New subdivision in Composition and Execution of a RG routine:
1. Composition (C) (max 10 points):
- Body Elements (D) (max 9)
- Mastery of the apparatus (as in the past, but very simplified) (M) (without limit)
- Dynamic elements with rotation with throw (the old Risk) (min. 1)
- Sequence of dance steps (new component) (min. 1)
2. Execution (max 10 points):
- Artistic mistakes (they are approximately the same as the ones of the current Artistic value).
- Technical mistakes.

20 points is the maximum of the total score of the routine. By not giving a maximum Composition value we will avoid the risk that gymnasts will damage the artistic and the rhythmic part of the routine in order to "fill" the routine.

Reduction of the number of body elements: from 12 to 9, in order to emphasize all the other components of the routine (Dance, Risk, Mastery) according to technical-physical possibilities of gymnasts.

4 values of body elements, assembled in 5 groups, difficulties of 0.10, 0.20, 0.30, 0.40, 0.50 until a theoric maximum of 4.50 (with 9 elements of 0.50). The other 6.50 points must be used for other components of the Composition:
- 0.30, the value of the dance sequence.
- 0.50 the maximum value of the Risk (every rotation is worth 0.10).
- 0.20, 0.30, the maximum value of the Mastery.

3 categories of body elements, each category must be present with minimum 2 elements and maximum 4 elements:
- Jumps.
- Balances: on relevé or by using different parts of the body.
- Rotations: on toe (pivots) or by using different parts of the body.

Elimination of Souplesse, because they are considered as physical qualities and not a difficulty. We will put some of the current souplesses in Balances and in Rotations.

No difficulty or type of rotation/renversement, including chainées and tour-plongés in the Risk, can be repeated. This is in order to advantage the variety and in order to avoid the monotony in the routine.

Possibility of adding to the body difficulty: 1 tour lent (once), 1 wave or renversement (0.10 is the value of the connection).

Possibility of performing:
- Difficulties with multiple rotation (fouetté pivots count as one difficulty).
- Mixed difficulties: every component count as one difficulty (2 or more difficulties of the same category or of different categories) (the value of the combination is 0.10)

There is still an half page with some news for groups, I will post it later! Wink


Thank you for the infos!
Could someone explain what is "Sequence of dance steps" supposed to be??
Or if there is any video to watch such an element as an example?

thanks in advance!
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