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COP 2013-2016 final version
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Artistry Fan



Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 656
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon, 8-Apr-2013 1:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clarification on the following please:

1) Can you claim [Throw] and [Catch] as different bases, or only together?

2) For [Handling], can you claim the base more than once for Masteries if they are different types of handling? Figure 8, large circles, transmission, etc.

3) What is the difference between an Echappe and regular throw with ribbon?

4) What are some examples of "transmission" (under mastery criteria) for the four apparatus? Most of what I see seem to be counted as small throws/catches.

5) Can you claim a mastery at the beginning of a risk? For example, a walkover throw with no sight and hands, turn around vertical on floor, catch in walkover to standing. I see no sight, no hands, 3 rotations, 2 change of axis, 2 change of level for .90 Risk... but can I also count .20 for the Mastery separately? OR is it just a part of the risk and that is all?

6) If you roll forward and then backwards, this would count as a change of axis?

7) There are only 2 levels: jump/standing and on the floor? I.E. A throw, chainee, turning split catch in flight cannot be credited for change of level.

8) If a gymnast waits 1 second or so before catching a risk, this would receive a static gymnast deduction?

9) If during a boomerang with ribbon, you completely miss the stick but it does not touch the floor.. it would only be an incorrect catch deduction? And if it touches the floor, would this count as a "loss"? This is assuming that you are holding the rest of the ribbon.

10) Would this count as a rotation? The flat roll on her side. I notice some gymnasts catch similar to this and am not sure if it's just a flourish of if it's countable.

Thank you in advance!
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Tahnee
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PostPosted: Tue, 9-Apr-2013 0:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Can you claim [Throw] and [Catch] as different bases, or only together? Yes, can claim separately.

2) For [Handling], can you claim the base more than once for Masteries if they are different types of handling? Figure 8, large circles, transmission, etc.
No

3) What is the difference between an Echappe and regular throw with ribbon?
Echappe is a toss of the ribbon - this should be small.

4) What are some examples of "transmission" (under mastery criteria) for the four apparatus? Most of what I see seem to be counted as small throws/catches.
Transmission refers to passing the apparatus without the use of hands. E.g. rotations of the hoop from elbow to elbow, passing the club from knee to knee, or when kneeling, passing the ball from back of neck to drop in feet.

5) Can you claim a mastery at the beginning of a risk? For example, a walkover throw with no sight and hands, turn around vertical on floor, catch in walkover to standing. I see no sight, no hands, 3 rotations, 2 change of axis, 2 change of level for .90 Risk... but can I also count .20 for the Mastery separately? OR is it just a part of the risk and that is all?
No, this is part of what you would write for the Risk.

6) If you roll forward and then backwards, this would count as a change of axis?
No

7) There are only 2 levels: jump/standing and on the floor? I.E. A throw, chainee, turning split catch in flight cannot be credited for change of level.
There are 3 levels - in flight, standing and on the floor. The above example has a change in level.

Cool If a gymnast waits 1 second or so before catching a risk, this would receive a static gymnast deduction?
This is not long enough to be considered static, but technically the risk should not be counted.

9) If during a boomerang with ribbon, you completely miss the stick but it does not touch the floor.. it would only be an incorrect catch deduction? And if it touches the floor, would this count as a "loss"? This is assuming that you are holding the rest of the ribbon.
If you catch part of the ribbon instead of the stick, it is an incorrect catch. If you completely miss the stick and it falls to the floor, despite the fact that the gymnast is holding the end of the ribbon, this is a loss.

10) Would this count as a rotation? The flat roll on her side. I notice some gymnasts catch similar to this and am not sure if it's just a flourish of if it's countable.
Yes, a log roll is considered a rotation.
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*Kalinka*



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Tue, 9-Apr-2013 12:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tahnee wrote:

7) There are only 2 levels: jump/standing and on the floor? I.E. A throw, chainee, turning split catch in flight cannot be credited for change of level.
There are 3 levels - in flight, standing and on the floor. The above example has a change in level.

Cool If a gymnast waits 1 second or so before catching a risk, this would receive a static gymnast deduction?
This is not long enough to be considered static, but technically the risk should not be counted.

I'm a bit confused about these parts, because this is what the CoP says:

So, apparently, flight/standing is only ONE level, and the only other level is "on the floor"... And, if a gymnast is supposed to catch the apparatus immediately at the end of the last rotation, then the CoP should be clearer about this, because it just says "at the end". Also because it says that "if the gymnast makes a minor adjustement (1 small step standing or on the floor) during the catch of R but still catches the apparatus correctly, the value of the R will be decreased by 0.10 point". So, if a small step is allowed, also a small pause between the end of the rotation and the catch of the apparatus should be tolerated! Confused
As far as I have understood, these two rules about R elements are a bit different from the ones from the past year:
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Tashik



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue, 9-Apr-2013 14:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Kalinka* wrote:
Tahnee wrote:

7) There are only 2 levels: jump/standing and on the floor? I.E. A throw, chainee, turning split catch in flight cannot be credited for change of level.
There are 3 levels - in flight, standing and on the floor. The above example has a change in level.


I'm a bit confused about these parts, because this is what the CoP says:

So, apparently, flight/standing is only ONE level, and the only other level is "on the floor"...


This rule with only two levels came in the last version of the CoP 2013, in first versions there were three levels. May be it is the reason to the confusion
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Tahnee
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PostPosted: Tue, 9-Apr-2013 15:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for pointing this out - I actually never realised it had changed to only 2 levels!

In regards to a short wait before catching the risk - this is why I said "technically" they shouldn't receive the value of the risk. I think that some judges though may give value with a short wait - fair enough if a small step is also allowed.
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Artistry Fan



Joined: 14 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue, 9-Apr-2013 15:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone! So, a short wait should be okay but would probably (should?) receive the -.10 deduction from small leniency.

In regards to risks, I think I read before that you are able to claim rotations after a rethrow but that's it. So for Miteva's first ball risk.. I would write this as R4 + change of axis + rethrow = .60. And then Mastery: [Catch] (sight and hands) for .20. Correct?

And for the long roll over her body, can you give in rotation as one of the criteria for the slight turn in her body assuming that she claims this for Mastery?

For Execution: Perhaps it would just be easier for me to ask if someone could kindly do a quick execution tally for the following two routines at 2013 Thiais Ribbon EF,

Sylvia Miteva
Margarita Mamun

I'm having a really hard time figuring out how Miteva could have received nearly the same execution score (8,967) as Mamun (8,867). I have to really nitpick and give harsh deductions to get hers equal, while spotting just obvious errors in Mamun's already gives me below 8,867. It's making me doubt my understanding of the deductions.

For anyone interested, the awarded Difficulty and Execution scores in EF and group routines at Thiais can be found here.
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OOTCHY



Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu, 18-Apr-2013 18:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

erformance of Fundamental Technical groups of apparatus work must be predominant in
the exercise (more than 50%).

Can anyone explain this to me
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Marlies



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri, 19-Apr-2013 8:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artistry Fan wrote:
Thanks everyone! So, a short wait should be okay but would probably (should?) receive the -.10 deduction from small leniency.

I'm having a really hard time figuring out how Miteva could have received nearly the same execution score (8,967) as Mamun (8,867). I have to really nitpick and give harsh deductions to get hers equal, while spotting just obvious errors in Mamun's already gives me below 8,867. It's making me doubt my understanding of the deductions.

For anyone interested, the awarded Difficulty and Execution scores in EF and group routines at Thiais can be found
here.


I think you cant find it bacause in E is als included artistry now. Not only execution.
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charleslch



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri, 19-Apr-2013 23:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOTCHY wrote:
erformance of Fundamental Technical groups of apparatus work must be predominant in
the exercise (more than 50%).

Can anyone explain this to me

That means throughout the whole routine, anything you do with the appratus has to be of its own characteristics. For example, in a ball routine, techniques such as big rolls on floor/over min of two body segments, bounces, figure 8s and one-hand catches should dominate more than a half of the whole routine. Other than these fundamental techniques, techniques such as rotations of hands, small throws and catches, etc. can be included, but these are not considered fundamental for ball.

As for other apparatus, you can find this on page 11 of the latest CoP.
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zevaness



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PostPosted: Sat, 4-May-2013 11:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you do a multiple rotation difficulty with a fouetté pivot + another pivot ?

The connexion must be without heel support, but a fouetté pivot always finish with heel support... Watching
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Artistry Fan



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PostPosted: Sun, 9-Jun-2013 1:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello. I thought of a couple questions while trying to analyze routines from Euros.

1. High bounce is one that reaches up to what level - about shoulder/head height?
I see a lot of gymnasts doing this and it seems to be a mastery but I can't figure out what's on the sheet. What would be the next one after be as well?

2. Would 2 elements connected by walkover also receive the .10 connection bonus on top for no intermediate step.. or just the value for walkover?

3. Can you claim the following two masteries on the same sheet: [Fundamental Base] (2 criteria) and [Same Fundamental Base] (Same 2 criteria + 1 other)?
The way it's worded - "Minimum 2 criteria," no mention of maximum - sounds like you can add another and say that it's a different combination.

4. Is it true that any criteria after a rethrow during risk does not count?
I find this strange since some gymnasts are doing additional criteria after rethrow and it's wasted effort when there's not enough to claim mastery for the 2nd catch.

5. Can you use all three of these bases for Mastery on one sheet: 1) Small Throw and Catch of ball, a club, hoop, etc. 2) Throw, and 3) Catch?

6. Did anyone ever find out if you can combine turning split leap with ring AND bend for .80?

Thanks ahead of time!
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Denisa



Joined: 29 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon, 10-Jun-2013 8:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artistry Fan wrote:
Hello. I thought of a couple questions while trying to analyze routines from Euros.

1. High bounce is one that reaches up to what level - about shoulder/head height?
I see a lot of gymnasts doing this and it seems to be a mastery but I can't figure out what's on the sheet. What would be the next one after be as well?

High bounce is hips level. Low bounce is knee level. At least this is what I know.
That element can be written as bounce (no hands, rotation).

Artistry Fan wrote:
2. Would 2 elements connected by walkover also receive the .10 connection bonus on top for no intermediate step.. or just the value for walkover?

No bonus if there is a rotation (walkover) between them. You only get the 0,10 if properly linked the difficulty with the walkover.

Artistry Fan wrote:
3. Can you claim the following two masteries on the same sheet: [Fundamental Base] (2 criteria) and [Same Fundamental Base] (Same 2 criteria + 1 other)?
The way it's worded - "Minimum 2 criteria," no mention of maximum - sounds like you can add another and say that it's a different combination.

Yes, with the condition the mastery is different. I didn't find any restriction in CoP about using the same fundamental base (same 2 criteria) twice as long as it is not a repetition. The only restriction is about "other" base.
If someone has another opinion (with argumentation), please share it with us here.

Artistry Fan wrote:
4. Is it true that any criteria after a rethrow during risk does not count?
I find this strange since some gymnasts are doing additional criteria after rethrow and it's wasted effort when there's not enough to claim mastery for the 2nd catch.

Any criteria added after the rethrow (when talking about risks) is not counted as part of that risk. It can be written as a mastery, a body difficulty, another risk. If the coach write it as part of the risk, the judge will cancel it, so just waste of effort.

Artistry Fan wrote:
5. Can you use all three of these bases for Mastery on one sheet: 1) Small Throw and Catch of ball, a club, hoop, etc. 2) Throw, and 3) Catch?

No, only one base from "Other" group can be used for Mastery. If you want to use them for body difficulties, yes you can use them all in the same routine.

Artistry Fan wrote:
6. Did anyone ever find out if you can combine turning split leap with ring AND bend for .80?
Thanks ahead of time!

What would prevent you to use this leap? If the gymnast is able to do it (I didn't see any top level gymnast doing it), you can put it in the sheet. The gymnast must show a perfect split (keep in mind that there is no tolerance) and a visible extension inside the ring.
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Artistry Fan



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PostPosted: Mon, 10-Jun-2013 9:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denisa, thank you for your response! Very helpful.

For #3, my wording is a little strange. A simpler way should have been to ask "Can you write more than 2 criteria on a Mastery, or are you restricted to just 2?"

... but now you gave me another question. What you are saying is that it is okay to write [Fundamental Base A] (Criteria C + B) twice on the sheet, as long as the way it is performed is different?

#5... I might be misunderstanding, but you can only use one base total from the entire "Other" group for Mastery? Shocked
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Cipelly



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PostPosted: Mon, 10-Jun-2013 9:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denisa wrote:
Artistry Fan wrote:
5. Can you use all three of these bases for Mastery on one sheet: 1) Small Throw and Catch of ball, a club, hoop, etc. 2) Throw, and 3) Catch?

No, only one base from "Other" group can be used for Mastery. If you want to use them for body difficulties, yes you can use them all in the same routine.


I understood this sentence in a different way: " Elements combinations of each Apparatus Mastery must be different: Fundamental Groups
may be repeated; Other Technical Group may be used 1 time."
You can do as many Mastery as you want with Fundamental Groups (so you can see on the sheet the symbols as roll or bounces or mills... repeated many times), but you can do 1 Mastery for EACH Other Technical Group (so you can see 1 time a Mastery with small throw and catch, 1 time with unstable balance, 1 time with throw, 1 time with "handling" .... ecc).
If it's not how I understood is sooooo restrictive to perform just 1 mastery with any of other technical groups....and it's not what I'm seeing in gymnasts' routines... Rolling Eyes

#3 I would say yes! You can write 2 masteries with identical base and criteria, providing that they're different!
Moreover I know that (at least in my country) you can write 3 criteria for "prevention"..so that if you miss a criteria, you have the other two that "save" your mastery so that you can anyhow receive 0.20 for it.
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Tahnee
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PostPosted: Mon, 10-Jun-2013 13:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not only can you use all "other" groups for Mastery once each, in ball, clubs and ribbon, you can use each type of "handling" once for Mastery.
Eg . With clubs - a mastery with a roll, a mastery with rebound, a mastery with transmission etc....
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