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Grandi explaining FIG position
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schuster47



Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Tue, 3-Sep-2013 14:13    Post subject: Grandi explaining FIG position Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wxg6Byyxgg
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schuster47



Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Tue, 3-Sep-2013 14:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just hillarious!

Bravo Bruno!
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cathobbes



Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 1056
Location: Hong Kong, China

PostPosted: Tue, 3-Sep-2013 16:02    Post subject: Re: Grandi explaining FIG position Reply with quote

schuster47 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wxg6Byyxgg


Any translation please? I wish to know what Bruno the white knight talking about.. Cool
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maksymehappy



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Tue, 3-Sep-2013 18:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

The substance of what he says is simple and would fit inside three or four minutes if allowed to talk at his own pace.
He outlines some statistics about judging coincidences- no coincidences of whole judging sheets at the euros for instance, but something like 56 in 117 Bucharest exams sheets. What he's really exercised about is the disappearance of them, a miracle on a par with Our Lady Mary taking off with them into the sky (~8.00)
He's also exasperated by the fact that rhythmic gymnastics does not become effectively worldwide by implying a closed shop of the usual suspects.
He does not go in enough detail for us to tell that the appeal by the accused judges succeeded because the original evidence of the exam sheets disappeared, but from his frustrated manner it seems like it.
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 2260
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue, 3-Sep-2013 19:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those sheets were last seen in Szyszkowska's room, for which only her and her husband had access.

Guess what happened. Mr. Green
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 2260
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue, 3-Sep-2013 19:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

More of Grandi, he definitely uses his position to speak out:

"My objective is to create new rules and to prove to the IOC that rhythmic gymnastics can work correctly”

Go for more here: http://www.zeit.de/sport/2013-08/rhythmische-sportgymnastik-wm-grandi
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ybalka_



Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 1538

PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 14:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bravo Grandi!!

Love the way he expresses anger while answering and the "miracle" thing irony Laughing

I wish this could have direct implications to those "odd" apples. Let's see if he takes some further actions than just speaking out loud.

So far, looks like the beginning of something different.
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gymfan3



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 196
Location: kay ell

PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 14:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

hope the IOC is pushing Grandi for reforms.. else RG will be axed..... Neutral
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 16:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

gymfan3 wrote:
hope the IOC is pushing Grandi for reforms.. else RG will be axed..... Neutral


My feeling is from Grandi's interview that he has to defend the sport, that's why he made a stand. He's pretty pissed off, too.
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 2260
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 16:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

ybalka_ wrote:
Bravo Grandi!!

Love the way he expresses anger while answering and the "miracle" thing irony Laughing

I wish this could have direct implications to those "odd" apples. Let's see if he takes some further actions than just speaking out loud.

So far, looks like the beginning of something different.


I'm not sure FIG wants to give a lot of tasks to those ones who were involved in the scandal Mr. Green
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Jonathan



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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Location: Paris

PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 18:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a bit unclear on all of this. He said that no cheating has gone on in competitions, just the exams. So is he saying judging up until then has always been fair? Also, the thing about the 'miracle' not repeating itself. I.e judges not scoring the same in Montpellier for example, is that a good thing?!
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maksymehappy



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 18:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grandi began his response explaining there is no consistent agreement on what is or isn't present as difficulty in the first place and that the technical committee has been evasive about it for 16 years. - "President, it is impossible to evaluate the difficulty exactly"
As I remember it, he gave two statistics of how judges scoresheets coincided in practice- 2 of 488 in Montpellier WC, 0 in Wien EC. So 56 of 117 coinciding in Bucharest was miracle enough, and the scoresheets disappearing was miraculous also.
If anyone gets confused about this it must be the translator's fault because Mr. Grandi tries very hard to make it simple!
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Artistry Fan



Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 656
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed, 4-Sep-2013 22:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonathan wrote:
I'm a bit unclear on all of this. He said that no cheating has gone on in competitions, just the exams. So is he saying judging up until then has always been fair? Also, the thing about the 'miracle' not repeating itself. I.e judges not scoring the same in Montpellier for example, is that a good thing?!


It doesn't really make sense. If you have unqualified judges, then that obviously has an effect on the competition scores. Right? I don't get that either.

As for Montpellier, it seems like he's just showing how much craziness was going on during the exams that there was a 'miraculous' boost in accuracy. That somehow so many judges were able to easily match the reference score when it's very difficult to do so. That plus how many of the sheets were the same, including their mistakes, makes the situation a bit funny.
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Jonathan



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu, 5-Sep-2013 9:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artistry Fan wrote:
Jonathan wrote:
I'm a bit unclear on all of this. He said that no cheating has gone on in competitions, just the exams. So is he saying judging up until then has always been fair? Also, the thing about the 'miracle' not repeating itself. I.e judges not scoring the same in Montpellier for example, is that a good thing?!


It doesn't really make sense. If you have unqualified judges, then that obviously has an effect on the competition scores. Right? I don't get that either.

As for Montpellier, it seems like he's just showing how much craziness was going on during the exams that there was a 'miraculous' boost in accuracy. That somehow so many judges were able to easily match the reference score when it's very difficult to do so. That plus how many of the sheets were the same, including their mistakes, makes the situation a bit funny.


This is what I mean... Also judges are watching the same routines and evaulating them according to the same rules, so scores should be at least similar (although not miraculously identical like in Budapest). But if there was such disparity in Montpellier, why wasn't this addressed then? There's no point talking about it 2 years down the line!! And what about the reference judges, how did judges score against their marks? It's probably irrelevant anyway, as they are corrupt too. Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, only a certain difference is tolerated between judges sccoring the same routines on the same panel. If one judge deviates too much, she/he is the one considered cheating, even if it's that judge who is judging fairly! I personally think the judges should be seperated around the floor area like naughty school girls and then let's see what scores they come up with.

Another question, no judges have been found to be guilty as such but some were named in the article Gergely wrote. Natalia Gorbullina is one of them. She is considered an expert and trains judges around the world as part of the FIG academy. It looks like she wasn't at the latest one in Greece, coincidence?

Lastly, who were the panel in Kiev overseeing the judging?
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu, 5-Sep-2013 10:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonathan wrote:
Artistry Fan wrote:
Jonathan wrote:
I'm a bit unclear on all of this. He said that no cheating has gone on in competitions, just the exams. So is he saying judging up until then has always been fair? Also, the thing about the 'miracle' not repeating itself. I.e judges not scoring the same in Montpellier for example, is that a good thing?!


It doesn't really make sense. If you have unqualified judges, then that obviously has an effect on the competition scores. Right? I don't get that either.

As for Montpellier, it seems like he's just showing how much craziness was going on during the exams that there was a 'miraculous' boost in accuracy. That somehow so many judges were able to easily match the reference score when it's very difficult to do so. That plus how many of the sheets were the same, including their mistakes, makes the situation a bit funny.


This is what I mean... Also judges are watching the same routines and evaulating them according to the same rules, so scores should be at least similar (although not miraculously identical like in Budapest). But if there was such disparity in Montpellier, why wasn't this addressed then? There's no point talking about it 2 years down the line!! And what about the reference judges, how did judges score against their marks? It's probably irrelevant anyway, as they are corrupt too. Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, only a certain difference is tolerated between judges sccoring the same routines on the same panel. If one judge deviates too much, she/he is the one considered cheating, even if it's that judge who is judging fairly! I personally think the judges should be seperated around the floor area like naughty school girls and then let's see what scores they come up with.

Another question, no judges have been found to be guilty as such but some were named in the article Gergely wrote. Natalia Gorbullina is one of them. She is considered an expert and trains judges around the world as part of the FIG academy. It looks like she wasn't at the latest one in Greece, coincidence?

Lastly, who were the panel in Kiev overseeing the judging?


Hey, that was NOT in Budapest Mr. Green

Judges not hitting the reference mark is the normal way of things. Montpellier, Tartu etc. results were used to show that in regular competitions there is never such a similarity between reference scores and judge scores as in Bucharest - hence the Bucharest results could have only been achieved by intentional leaking of the answers.

Re: cheating at competition. I don't think Grandi can accuse anyone of that, because there is absolutely no proof for that and that wasn't even investigated. Though the disciplinary decision states that using unqualified judges result in unfair scoring.

Re: Kiev superior panels:

The superior jury was Sawade (GER, president), Bourova (BEL, D Hoop/Clubs), Davidov (ISR, D Hoop/Clubs), Kim (KOR, D Ball/Ribbon), Starcevic (CRO, D Ball/Ribbon), Pachta (GRE, execution), Milanesio (ARG, execution)

The special competition supervisory board was Slava Corn (CAN, FIG 1st vice president), Morinari Watanabe (JPN), Hardy Fink (CAN, education director), Eunice Lebre (POR, FIG sports manager), Terhi Toivanen (FIN, FIG sports manager)
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