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2016 Espoo World Cup (Feb. 26-28)
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Hoops and Grand Fouettes



Joined: 10 May 2011
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PostPosted: Fri, 26-Feb-2016 19:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Results after Day 1


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Mrs.Miracle



Joined: 06 May 2011
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PostPosted: Fri, 26-Feb-2016 20:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Startlists + Results + Photos + Videos >>>
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psrgomes08



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PostPosted: Sat, 27-Feb-2016 0:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soldatova's ball score was really high Shocked
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susana



Joined: 26 Mar 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Madrid

PostPosted: Sat, 27-Feb-2016 11:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

psrgomes08 wrote:
Soldatova's ball score was really high Shocked


And what about Russian group...
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2224
Location: Stars Hollow, Connecticut

PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 14:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand that each person has their own favorite school but I get the impression that the RG fandom has reached a low point and now works on the assumption that this or that gymnast is better just because she is RUS/UKR (mostly) and they like her while being completely facetious of their shortcomings as gymnasts, saying she deserves to be on the podium because her turns are pretty, or because the rhythmic steps are the second coming of RG's Jesuschrist in spite of the actual mistakes they make while performing the routines, like drops, missed pivots, shitty apparatus handling.

And also we are failing to recognize what X gymnast has done correctly or not, Son is getting hate left and right, but seriously people complained about her getting the ball gold when they didn't even watched the routine and also being oblibious to the fact that basically everyone else made mistakes!!. People on FB even mentioned making a change.org petition, I mean, come on. Rolling Eyes

The same with Rizatdinova's score yesterday, the stream didn't even show half of the routine yet ppl were like "only 18.997845155, its nor fair, poor Ganna!!"

The funny thing is that each one of these claims comes just out of what we think they should get. I have not seen a single complaint with an actual breakdown of the routines. In Artistic gymnastics, I see routines breakdowns all the time. But here the code is not helping neither, is not user fiendly and I think its actually more frustrating to watch the competitions when you know what they should be getting or not. Its almosy like a "ain't nobody got time fo dat" thing.

We have had things like this in the past, like when Bessonova was around, but always with breakdowns around or something else more substantial other than a "Bessy WUZ ROBBED" comment. And just assuming she should get a gold because she was Bess.

Gymnasts don't deserve an automatic gold because their turns are boss, or because they are so expressive OMG!, I don't know if this is how the fandom is now or we have always been like that but I'm more aweare of that because of social networks?
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 15:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, thank you for that comment!

That's something that irks me bigtime. It's like automatic comment-generating based on beliefs instead of actual performances.

I never had trouble enjoying a routine which was good for a 7th place and I never thought that there should be a connection between how much I like a gymnast and how well she scores. And on the other hand. I might not like a gymnast but if she's doing great, she's doing great.

Justin also told me that Son gets a lot of hate, which I can't really understand. She's a technical, stable gymnast, usually very good consistency and high scores. She might be not the most exciting ever - I'd love her to try new things out, because she is good enough to try other ways -, anyway, when there are mistakes in a final and she's on her usual level, yes, she might well win. Obviously, she has strong sports diplomacy, too, but that's another question.

But the reactions pissed me off a lot of time during the GP Moscow as well. There was everything. Body-shaming of gymnasts (No. Ruprecht is not fat. Ruprecht looks healthy and is pretty, despite not having a typical RG bodytype). Random hate directed at some gymnasts (I've never in my life criticised a gymnast just for the sake of it, or when I didn't like their style. It's all down to individual preference, my favourites could be dead boring for others, and it's all right).
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Last edited by Gergely on Sun, 28-Feb-2016 16:44; edited 1 time in total
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maksymehappy



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 16:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tchachinafan wrote:
We have had things like this in the past, like when Bessonova was around, but always with breakdowns around or something else more substantial other than a "Bessy WUZ ROBBED" comment. And just assuming she should get a gold because she was Bess.

They really called her Bess? I can only think of a sheepdog when I hear "Come on Bess"
Well, I have found my level and I'm sticking to it.
People are moaning that the Averinas are underscored already.


Last edited by maksymehappy on Sun, 28-Feb-2016 16:18; edited 1 time in total
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 16:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't mess with the Bess Mr. Green

(I'll get my coat)
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 16:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some random data: this is the worst Russian performance since 2014, Lisbon WCup (0/8 gold medals, now 3/8. Corbeil 2014 was also "only" 3 golds, but that was out of 5).

This is also Son's first World Cup win since 2014 Lisbon.

In Espoo there were more non-Russian individual winners (Rizatdinova 2 golds, Son 1) than in the whole 2015 series (Rizatdinova 1)!
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*rotkwicca*



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 17:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Tchachinafan! By the way, please tell me where this discussion is happening, since discussion here on this forum is mostly dead. I love Halkina for example, but I am not blind to her loss of axis in pivots etc. I was just thinking about what you wrote as I noticed these mistakes while watching her video. I don't like Soldatova, but I loved her ball.

I think people are blind fans of Rizatdinova and Mamun the most, ie. the ratio between reality and idealization is the biggest problem with these. To me, Rizatdinova is classy, but she sometimes cannot quite compete with the innovation the Russians (which I usually dislike) are bringing in terms of apparatus handling and body work in between the elements. That is why I find her ribbon refreshing, because it feels different from what she usually does.

Mamun to me was horribly messy for such high level a while ago, but she has been working really hard to improve her shortcomings.

Son can be clean and nice, but she is not interesting to watch IMHO. Of course, if everybody else does mistakes it is only logical that she climbs up.
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Gergely



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 17:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

*rotkwicca* wrote:
Thank you Tchachinafan! By the way, please tell me where this discussion is happening, since discussion here on this forum is mostly dead. I love Halkina for example, but I am not blind to her loss of axis in pivots etc. I was just thinking about what you wrote as I noticed these mistakes while watching her video. I don't like Soldatova, but I loved her ball.

I think people are blind fans of Rizatdinova and Mamun the most, ie. the ratio between reality and idealization is the biggest problem with these. To me, Rizatdinova is classy, but she sometimes cannot quite compete with the innovation the Russians (which I usually dislike) are bringing in terms of apparatus handling and body work in between the elements. That is why I find her ribbon refreshing, because it feels different from what she usually does.

Mamun to me was horribly messy for such high level a while ago, but she has been working really hard to improve her shortcomings.

Son can be clean and nice, but she is not interesting to watch IMHO. Of course, if everybody else does mistakes it is only logical that she climbs up.


Yes, yes, yes, yes. Especially the innovation part and Son.
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
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Location: Stars Hollow, Connecticut

PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 17:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gergely wrote:
Oh, thank you for that comment!

That's something that irks me bigtime. It's like automatic comment-generating based on beliefs instead of actual performances.

I never had trouble enjoying a routine which was good for a 7th place and I never thought that there should be a connection between how much I like a gymnast and how well she scores. And on the other hand. I might not like a gymnast but if she's doing great, she's doing great.

Justin also told me that Son gets a lot of hate, which I can't really understand. She's a technical, stable gymnast, usually very good consistency and high scores. It might be not the most exciting ever - I'd love her to try new things out, because she is good enough to try other ways -, anyway, when there are mistakes in a final and she's on her usual level, yes, she might well win. Obviously, she has strong sports diplomacy, too, but that's another question.

But the reactions pissed me off a lot of time during the GP Moscow as well. There was everything. Body-shaming of gymnasts (No. Ruprecht is not fat. Ruprecht looks healthy and is pretty, despite not having a typical RG bodytype). Random hate directed at some gymnasts (I've never in my life criticised a gymnast just for the sake of it, or when I didn't like their style. It's all down to individual preference, my favourites could be dead boring for others, and it's all right).


Someone even complained about Son not using asian music, and that she should do it, because gymnasts like Deng did it and she's also Asian, like WTF!!!??

The general consensus of Moscow's GP and Espoo was that Son should not get a medal no matter what she does but its OK if Mamun/Soldatova/Rizatdinova get them even if they have made mistakes, because.

I think its unfortunate that now many people is going to start watching her routines with automated prejudices, failing to see what she does right.
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 17:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

*rotkwicca* wrote:
Thank you Tchachinafan! By the way, please tell me where this discussion is happening, since discussion here on this forum is mostly dead. I love Halkina for example, but I am not blind to her loss of axis in pivots etc. I was just thinking about what you wrote as I noticed these mistakes while watching her video. I don't like Soldatova, but I loved her ball.

I think people are blind fans of Rizatdinova and Mamun the most, ie. the ratio between reality and idealization is the biggest problem with these. To me, Rizatdinova is classy, but she sometimes cannot quite compete with the innovation the Russians (which I usually dislike) are bringing in terms of apparatus handling and body work in between the elements. That is why I find her ribbon refreshing, because it feels different from what she usually does.

Mamun to me was horribly messy for such high level a while ago, but she has been working really hard to improve her shortcomings.

Son can be clean and nice, but she is not interesting to watch IMHO. Of course, if everybody else does mistakes it is only logical that she climbs up.


Rotkwicca, It happened on the livestream of the competition for both Moscow and Espoo there was a stream for the competition and a chat room right next to it, also on FB in pages like "Rhythmic Curiosities and more" "esteruss", "Rhythmic Gymnastics", etc, also the Spanish forum"inforitmica" as well as their FB page.

Very much agreed about Rizatdinova and Mamun, and you know that's also an example of one of the thingsI meant, if we look back we can see its almost an RG's Modus Operandis as of late.

UKR's number one shall be worshipped and victimized no matter what (Bessonova, Maksymenko, now Rizatdinova) and Russia's number 2 shall also recieve da love (Kondakova, Dmitrieva, and now Mamun) because the fandom is bored of watching Russia's number 1 winning all the time (Zhenya, Yana) even when Russia's number 1 is a much cleaner and better gymnast overall!
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maksymehappy



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 18:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tchachinafan wrote:
Rotkwicca, It happened on the livestream of the competition for both Moscow and Espoo there was a stream for the competition and a chat room right next to it, also on FB in pages like "Rhythmic Curiosities and more" "esteruss", "Rhythmic Gymnastics", etc, also the Spanish forum"inforitmica" as well as their FB page.

Very much agreed about Rizatdinova and Mamun, and you know that's also an example of one of the thingsI meant, if we look back we can see its almost an RG's Modus Operandis as of late.

UKR's number one shall be worshipped and victimized no matter what (Bessonova, Maksymenko, now Rizatdinova) and Russia's number 2 shall also recieve da love (Kondakova, Dmitrieva, and now Mamun) because the fandom is bored of watching Russia's number 1 winning all the time (Zhenya, Yana) even when Russia's number 1 is a much cleaner and better gymnast overall!

I've never seen anyone so peevish with the gymnastics community before. Why visit the live chat for anything useful or sensible?? Ask a monkey, get peanuts and banana skins. These people cannot be reading and typing while fully following routines. Maybe these people have a transparent overlay of text on the video like a HUD because I do not see how they can manage it. Maybe one has to be under 21 to understand this.
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun, 28-Feb-2016 19:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chats are LOVE Kiss Cheek
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