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Russians in Award Ceremonies
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Salphone



Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 452
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun, 29-May-2016 20:40    Post subject: Russians in Award Ceremonies Reply with quote

Maybe this is a weird topic...

I just watched the award ceremonies of World Cup in Sofia and I was annoyed again, since I noticed this before: If Russia doesn't get all gold and silver medals, they are just pissed off. I understand they are under huge pressure, but I still feel they are acting totally impolite towards all other competitors. Watching the award ceremony for World Cup in Sofia: Rizatdinova, Son and Vladinova had been really happy about their place, no matter if it was a first, second or third place. In contrast to that, the Russians didn't seem happy at all, no matter if it was a first place or not. Arina Averina looked like she wanted to kill someone and Kudryavtseva looked like she wanted to be somewhere else. No smile at all from both Russians and I can't understand why they take it so bad. I noticed this many times and I always feel like I don't want to watch award ceremonies at all. It spoils the experience for all other gymnasts too.

I remember Staniouta being totally happy to be on top of the podium just one week before at World Cup in Minsk. She rarely is in the first place, but she is also very happy about a second or third place. No matter what - a place on the podium is a good thing for her. Why are the Russians so different? Are they too much accustomed to the first place or do they get so much trouble for not securing all first and second places for Russia? I don't really understand this.
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butterflyRG



Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 296

PostPosted: Mon, 30-May-2016 11:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite true. Although Russia has some gracious champions, there does seem a sub-culture of superiority among Russian gymnasts, in particularly young ones. It appears that Russian young fans only seek autographs of Russians, and cheer only Russians. Some just behave rude to gymnasts from other countries. I am not talking about patriotism, which exists in every country. Russian from top understand the problem is deeper, as in future Olympic host country can choose which sport will be in Olympic. Rhythmic gymnastics is unfortunately always in the conversation of being eliminated. I think this Russian sub culture doesn't help...
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*Shadow*



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2250
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue, 31-May-2016 23:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because they're so used to getting first place no matter what, it's a tragedy for them to receive a silver (gasp!) medal Rolling Eyes
The other girls must feel so very fortunate and grateful to even make it to the podium, let alone receive gold
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maksymehappy



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Fri, 3-Jun-2016 14:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

butterflyRG wrote:
Quite true. Although Russia has some gracious champions, there does seem a sub-culture of superiority among Russian gymnasts, in particularly young ones. It appears that Russian young fans only seek autographs of Russians, and cheer only Russians. Some just behave rude to gymnasts from other countries.

Although it is no secret nobody outside those little girls mentioned seems to take the objectivity of the scoring seriously, that is not how it is likely to be portrayed to their gymnasts themselves. Expect their bosses to remind them that they have the most lavish facilities and the most experienced trainers and choreographers, and that if their gymnasts don't come first, then they must be doing something wrong.
On the other hand, the other gymnasts seem to cling to the hope that one day the leaders may do something seriously wrong, and then the others will have their reward. Then one was surprised one day that after the 'routine of her life', it was not marked accordingly.
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butterflyRG



Joined: 30 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon, 6-Jun-2016 13:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Cup in Spain shows Spain fans are the best, true fan of the sport! Why don't we see more world championship and European championship being held in Spain?
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Janna



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 188
Location: West

PostPosted: Fri, 24-Jun-2016 20:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just listen to the Russian commentators, what opinion they have of themselves and of other nations competing, and you will understand everything. This is how they brainwash young Russian athletes and fans.
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2224
Location: Stars Hollow, Connecticut

PostPosted: Sat, 25-Jun-2016 9:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think this has to do with brainwashing.

my two cents about it is that gymnasts can do as they please, and as long as they don't pull a Skaldina to their competitors I don't think they are being disrespecftul to anyone. They don't owe anyone a smile.

Personally, I prefer to see them angry/sad for whatever reason than to see them faking smiles or worse those heartbroken forced smiles.
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viddy



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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Location: Canada :D

PostPosted: Sat, 25-Jun-2016 19:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

When participating in FIG and IOC sanctioned competitions gymnasts, coaches, and judges must show good sportsmanship. Most national associations also make that a requirement of their athletes. I am not expecting everyone to put on a smile when they didn't win gold but I am hoping everyone sets a good example of a true athlete and sportsperson. That is also their job in addition to their performances.
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maksymehappy



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Tue, 28-Jun-2016 22:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

viddy wrote:
When participating in FIG and IOC sanctioned competitions gymnasts, coaches, and judges must show good sportsmanship. Most national associations also make that a requirement of their athletes. I am not expecting everyone to put on a smile when they didn't win gold but I am hoping everyone sets a good example of a true athlete and sportsperson. That is also their job in addition to their performances.

Cute, but what does the above really mean in practice? It's like corporate speak where people slap themselves on the back for saying it, but it is so vague it really says nothing. Until someone digs it up from policies in the company book as a pretext one day.
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viddy



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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Location: Canada :D

PostPosted: Wed, 29-Jun-2016 22:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

In practice it means that judges or Olympics selection committees for the country can intervene if sportsmanship is lacking in certain athletes. I have never seen it happen on an international level however, regardless of the rules.
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IrisO



Joined: 18 Jun 2011
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Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Fri, 1-Jul-2016 8:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

viddy wrote:
In practice it means that judges or Olympics selection committees for the country can intervene if sportsmanship is lacking in certain athletes. I have never seen it happen on an international level however, regardless of the rules.


I think the main question is: "Is it bad sportmanship when you're unhappy with second place?" It all comes down to how you define bad sportmanship and it's definitely not just black or white. I think that's what 'maksymehappy' meant as well, that 'bad spotmanship' is still a very vague term.
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viddy



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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Location: Canada :D

PostPosted: Fri, 1-Jul-2016 15:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. The reactions I have seen show unhappiness. Athletes at the national and international levels may have courses on helping them deal with the media.

On a side note, it is the media and fans who decide who will push or support corporations, brands, and outside funding to sponsor gymnasts during and after their athletic careers. How many gymnasts can we think of who had borderline unsportsmanlike behaviours supported financially? In contrast I can think of many with very gracious and warm athletes who continue to receive funding well after their careers ended based on their athleticism and good sportsmanship behaviours. A large portion of athletes also turn to coaching or providing training camps soon after retirement. The most popular ones are always hosted by the athletes with the most charisma and funding.
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Tom T
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Joined: 30 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed, 6-Jul-2016 10:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just I try point out another factor that may or may not figure into how Russian gymnasts behave. Take this as you like and whatever. This is just a personal observation and my 2-cents from when I was at European Championships @ Holon in June...

Now mind you, I attended a fair number of major AG events back in the 1980's...or the cold war period (in history that was approx 1946-1991). This was back early, when I just started photographing international gymnastics. My experience back in the 80's, ie. during the Soviet period...well, the Russian fans back then were as patriotic as fans in my own country and not all that different. They got pumped up and excited like any country's fans at big sport events. Just the East German fans at Olympisky Arena in Moscow (1981)...whoa, let's say they were very patriotic(!) really showed it and were in a world of their own!

Well, just I have to say when I was at Holon Toto Arena in June, I sensed something different in the large Russian fan section up in the tribune. To explain, I have heard Russian fans do the following before in recent years...

When one of their gymnasts or the Russian group is due next to perform on the carpet...this new generation of Russian fans will go into a kind of monotone constant chant--> "Rus-si-ya...Rus-si-ya...Rus-si-ya" and it goes on for 1-2 minutes or so. Like I said, I've heard this chant before, say from mid-2000's to the present day. But whew, this time in particular at Holon, am sorry to say, I found it haunting and very unsettling.
The intonation and effect of the chant this time was like...what they really were saying to their gymnasts was--> "We expect you to do well, very well and we don't want anything less than 1st place."

So, the effect of this chanting maybe maybe is causing the reaction that you all are noticing in their gymnasts on the awards podium afterward. Gymnasts, coaches, even I.Viner herself...they maybe all feeling the effect of this subtle expectation pressure that comes from the Russian public. This expectation effect of their public may explain some of what is being observed with their gymnasts at this time in rhythmic gymnastics...
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maksymehappy



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Fri, 8-Jul-2016 20:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if a bunker mentality is forming.
State actions regarding foreign policy and even athletic doping programs have eroded goodwill for the country abroad. Persistently damaging to itself internationally has been state media reporting on various matters not only denying responsibility but also blaming reporting abroad on international 'conspiracy'. When the rest of the world sees such statements from state media arms, it turns its back in expectation that behaviour on the matters in question will not change. I do not see a likelihood of the current IAAF/IOC ban on athletes lifting for this kind of reason. And if behaviour of athletes and fans is tiresome now, I can only reason this is going to deepen before it ever gets better.
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Tchachinafan



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
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Location: Stars Hollow, Connecticut

PostPosted: Sat, 9-Jul-2016 20:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are also cultural/personal differences to have in mind about this.

Maybe a fellow Russian can help out but I remember this being a huge argument back then when in 2011 and 2012 Russian AG gymnast Viktoria Komova was labelled as a poor sport (which she later proved she indeed is a poor sport, but thats another story) for the crying and the lack of smile after controversialy losing both AA titles.

She recieved very abusrd hard critics about it, particularly at the Olympics, pretty much for crying and looking miserable on the podium. It probably didn't help that the biggest western broadcasters, where the main critics were coming from, labeled the Russians as spoiled temperamental divas and as being very difficult (both NBC and BBC did this) And lots of ppl including many Russians came to her defense arguing Russians are normally very sharp when it comes to their emotions, if they dont feel like smiling they simply wont smile and that actually ppl that smiles a lot are percieved as stupid/fake.

the typical "if I were her I would be thankfull for a silver" or "back when this or that gymnast lost, she didn't cry". Criticism is raining on Kudryavtseva left and right for not smiling when she wins and also for not smiling when she looses, what do ppl want?

Just because, for some , the standard is that of a smile and a happy face that doesn't means they have to live up to it and go against something they don't believe in. Why would they force themselves to do something they don't want to do.

Afterall they are graceful to their competitors and AFAIK neither has spoken badly of their rivals..........have they?
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