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World Cup Kiev 2012
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dalit



Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 4110
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Fri, 17-Feb-2012 12:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Juliana wrote:
dalit wrote:
Interesting that from Rus-Dmitrieva+Mamum,Blr-Charopa and also Aze doesn't send her top gymnast -GARAEVA

I wasn't surprised about Dmitrieva's participation. After all, Kondakova did take part in DCup last year. And didn't you realize that Garaeva hasn't attended DCup or any UKR competitions for years? So I don't find that interesting at all...

These days, Miteva and Narkevich are the usual participants in DCup Wink

I had other expections...i thought that because of the 80th celebration of Albina Deriugina this event will be with ALL the top gymnasts in the world.
Anyway,maybe it's better without K&K,stanuita,Charkchina,Greava etc'.
It means that on paper the gold medals will go to Maximenko(not without a fight with Dmitrieva and Miteva) and It will not spoil Albina's mood,i will never forget her face in the last Dcup when she gave the gold in the AA to Kondakova Wink


Last edited by dalit on Fri, 17-Feb-2012 12:47; edited 1 time in total
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dalit



Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 4110
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Fri, 17-Feb-2012 12:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cipelly wrote:
Mazur again in group, but only in 5 balls...
Narkevich also (just 5 balls)!!!!And Leshchyk too,but in both routines...was she in the group last year?? I don't remember... I would have recognize her....

...
yes,Leshchyk was in the group last year.
A good decision for Mazur and Narkevich,they are fantastic gymnasts who deserve to be in the OG,but because only 2 from one country so they don't have a chance so at least in the group.. .
Can't wait to see the routines of the Blr's group.
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Cipelly



Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 859
Location: Velletri (Italy)

PostPosted: Fri, 17-Feb-2012 13:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalit wrote:
Cipelly wrote:
Mazur again in group, but only in 5 balls...
Narkevich also (just 5 balls)!!!!And Leshchyk too,but in both routines...was she in the group last year?? I don't remember... I would have recognize her....

...
yes,Leshchyk was in the group last year.

Can't wait to see the routines of the Blr's group.


oh..then my mistake to not recognize her... :S

Yes, I'm really really curious to see Blr's and also Bul's new routines! Wonder if they have both new or kept at least one from last year....
I know that Italy kept both, but with some changes.
Hope that there will be a close fight between those 3 teams!! Bounce

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Black&White



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1200
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Fri, 17-Feb-2012 13:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Italy apparently dd not change the routines, just some elements
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*Shadow*



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2250
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri, 17-Feb-2012 17:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

idk why Albina was mad that Daria won; she clearly had stronger routines. I hope that Anna does good though, she's improved a lot, and hopefully (without bad mistakes) the judges will treat her fairly. I'm confused as to why she doesn't get scores as high as Maximenko's with a clean routine
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sammy861



Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 945

PostPosted: Fri, 17-Feb-2012 17:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black&White wrote:
Italy apparently dd not change the routines, just some elements


Yes, they are the same!
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cuckoo for rhythmic



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 472

PostPosted: Fri, 17-Feb-2012 19:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalit wrote:
Cipelly wrote:
Mazur again in group, but only in 5 balls...
Narkevich also (just 5 balls)!!!!And Leshchyk too,but in both routines...was she in the group last year?? I don't remember... I would have recognize her....

...
yes,Leshchyk was in the group last year.
A good decision for Mazur and Narkevich,they are fantastic gymnasts who deserve to be in the OG,but because only 2 from one country so they don't have a chance so at least in the group.. .
Can't wait to see the routines of the Blr's group.


I don't know.....Isn't thiskinda unfair? they bumped out athletes whose group participation won the country the spot in the OG! what about those athletes? do they not deserve to go to the OG?
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Anna Kull



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 5153
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat, 18-Feb-2012 8:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope Mazur will still be mainly an individual gymnast in the future! imo she is just as good as Rizatidinova and should be given a chance to shine. Yet I can fully understand that she does one group routine as it's a great opportunity for her to make it to the OG and as the group needs all the help it can get in order to reach the very best result that's possible for it...

Is there a participants list for juniors and the ones competing in the "annex" competition at DC yet?
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*Kalinka*



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 2180
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sat, 18-Feb-2012 15:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

cuckoo for rhythmic wrote:
dalit wrote:
Cipelly wrote:
Mazur again in group, but only in 5 balls...
Narkevich also (just 5 balls)!!!!And Leshchyk too,but in both routines...was she in the group last year?? I don't remember... I would have recognize her....

...
yes,Leshchyk was in the group last year.
A good decision for Mazur and Narkevich,they are fantastic gymnasts who deserve to be in the OG,but because only 2 from one country so they don't have a chance so at least in the group.. .
Can't wait to see the routines of the Blr's group.


I don't know.....Isn't thiskinda unfair? they bumped out athletes whose group participation won the country the spot in the OG! what about those athletes? do they not deserve to go to the OG?

I don't think it's unfair, if Narkevich is better than Alina Tumilovich (the girl who was in Belarusian group in Montpellier and now is out) I think it's right that she joins the group. Every country must send its best gymnasts, it would be unfair if a country didn't do this, IMO...
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cuckoo for rhythmic



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 472

PostPosted: Sat, 18-Feb-2012 17:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Kalinka* wrote:
cuckoo for rhythmic wrote:
dalit wrote:
Cipelly wrote:
Mazur again in group, but only in 5 balls...
Narkevich also (just 5 balls)!!!!And Leshchyk too,but in both routines...was she in the group last year?? I don't remember... I would have recognize her....

...
yes,Leshchyk was in the group last year.
A good decision for Mazur and Narkevich,they are fantastic gymnasts who deserve to be in the OG,but because only 2 from one country so they don't have a chance so at least in the group.. .
Can't wait to see the routines of the Blr's group.


I don't know.....Isn't this kinda unfair? they bumped out athletes whose group participation won the country the spot in the OG! what about those athletes? do they not deserve to go to the OG?

I don't think it's unfair, if Narkevich is better than Alina Tumilovich (the girl who was in Belarusian group in Montpellier and now is out) I think it's right that she joins the group. Every country must send its best gymnasts, it would be unfair if a country didn't do this, IMO...


Maybe dalit was trying to say what you are but what I objected to is ..... the way he wrote it!!! If the only reason to put individual athletes into group is the above underlined than I....object!!! Very Happy Wink

I am also not sure how you can tell "better" from "better" when you compaire two such different things as individual and group! It takes group athletes a long time to build the synchronization and something as basic in group as "throwing for my team mate to catch" is so different from the "I throw, I catch" of the individual.....anyway, I wish them the best!

Here is an interesting question: we often seen individuals going into group and back to individuals ,but seldom if ever the other way around. I wonder why....is it because they send to group the athletes that are not "good enough to be individuals"? That would make sense given what you say Kalinka....

Maybe some ahtletes ARE group athletes...and maybe some athletes will never be "good enough" for the group and that is why they go to individuals!!!. What do you think? Question Stupid Question
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dalit



Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 4110
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Sat, 18-Feb-2012 18:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

cuckoo for rhythmic wrote:
*Kalinka* wrote:
cuckoo for rhythmic wrote:
dalit wrote:
Cipelly wrote:
Mazur again in group, but only in 5 balls...
Narkevich also (just 5 balls)!!!!And Leshchyk too,but in both routines...was she in the group last year?? I don't remember... I would have recognize her....

...
yes,Leshchyk was in the group last year.
A good decision for Mazur and Narkevich,they are fantastic gymnasts who deserve to be in the OG,but because only 2 from one country so they don't have a chance so at least in the group.. .
Can't wait to see the routines of the Blr's group.


I don't know.....Isn't this kinda unfair? they bumped out athletes whose group participation won the country the spot in the OG! what about those athletes? do they not deserve to go to the OG?

I don't think it's unfair, if Narkevich is better than Alina Tumilovich (the girl who was in Belarusian group in Montpellier and now is out) I think it's right that she joins the group. Every country must send its best gymnasts, it would be unfair if a country didn't do this, IMO...


!

Here is an interesting question: we often seen individuals going into group and back to individuals ,but seldom if ever the other way around. I wonder why....is it because they send to group the athletes that are not "good enough to be individuals"?

Of course !
And by the way,i'm she. Wink .
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ed13



Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Posts: 260
Location: montpellier, france

PostPosted: Sat, 18-Feb-2012 21:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="dalit"]
cuckoo for rhythmic wrote:
*Kalinka* wrote:
cuckoo for rhythmic wrote:
dalit wrote:
Cipelly wrote:
Mazur again in group, but only in 5 balls...
Narkevich also (just 5 balls)!!!!And Leshchyk too,but in both routines...was she in the group last year?? I don't remember... I would have recognize her....

...
yes,Leshchyk was in the group last year.
A good decision for Mazur and Narkevich,they are fantastic gymnasts who deserve to be in the OG,but because only 2 from one country so they don't have a chance so at least in the group.. .
Can't wait to see the routines of the Blr's group.


I don't know.....Isn't this kinda unfair? they bumped out athletes whose group participation won the country the spot in the OG! what about those athletes? do they not deserve to go to the OG?

I don't think it's unfair, if Narkevich is better than Alina Tumilovich (the girl who was in Belarusian group in Montpellier and now is out) I think it's right that she joins the group. Every country must send its best gymnasts, it would be unfair if a country didn't do this, IMO...


!

Here is an interesting question: we often seen individuals going into group and back to individuals ,but seldom if ever the other way around. I wonder why....is it because they send to group the athletes that are not "good enough to be individuals"?



i dont know, Alina Tumilovich was a very good gymnast , she was has received a medal in beijing so she has a lot of experience. maybe she got injured ... or maybe it was supposed to happen like that because since 2009 belarus seem to follow a rule : one year, one new gymnast .

anyway ukraine does it usually for the olympics , its the first time that i hear that belarus does it. But not all gymnasts can do it in my opinion, some gymnasts are really "made" for being individuals and others for groups , but that doesnt mean that gymnasts from group are less good. belarus send usually its best gymnast in the group because well exept for montpellier their group is always on the podium so they have a better tradition in group than individual.
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cuckoo for rhythmic



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 472

PostPosted: Sun, 19-Feb-2012 3:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalit wrote:

Of course !
And by the way,i'm she. Wink .


....it is your right of course to be what you want, I do however recall another post where you said you are a "he" Wink

I know you are not trying to demean the group athletes but the idea that they can be so easily pushed out by an "individual", when that individual did nothing to achieve the OG place really upsets me....if of course it is an injury, I can understand the need, but otherwise, IMO it is very unfair....

@ed13: the need to replenish your group athletes is crusial for every team and the "how" is always debatable. Ideally you would like to have a junior group to "feed' athletes into the senior group IMO this way you can have athletes who already know how to work in a group before you send them in to the senior team.....as I understand it....group is an "animal of a different nature"!! Very Happy
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dalit



Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 4110
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Sun, 19-Feb-2012 7:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

cuckoo for rhythmic wrote:
dalit wrote:

Of course !
And by the way,i'm she. Wink .


....it is your right of course to be what you want, I do however recall another post where you said you are a "he" Wink

I know you are not trying to demean the group athletes but the idea that they can be so easily pushed out by an "individual", when that individual did nothing to achieve the OG place really upsets me....if of course it is an injury, I can understand the need, but otherwise, IMO it is very unfair....


I understand your feeling..,
If a gymnast trained in a group for few years,achieved the OG place and one year before the OG she pushed out by an ind. gymnast(and it doesn't matter if she was injured/less good than the others etc'),yes,it's cruel.
But it's also cruel to see excellents gymnasts like Mazur and Narkevish that train very hard and on paper belong to the best 15 gymnasts in the world but will not be able to achive the dream of every sportsman=OG,because they rank only third in their country.
So yes sport is cruel !
And in the cases of the groups of Blr and Ukr,the situation is less cruel and make sense imo-
Replacing one gymnast in the Blr's group( that like it was writtren was already in the OG) with a strong gymnast that wasn't and maybe also to improve the chances of the Blr's group for a medal and about the Ukr's group,Mazur already traind with the group in the recent years.

And another OT..where did i say that i'm "he"? i guess it was a misunderstanding..my REAL name is Dalit Wink
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*Kalinka*



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 2180
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun, 19-Feb-2012 11:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it is quite cruel, of course, but I wouldn't call it "unfair". The unfair thing would be, IMO, if a gymnast who in a group would be better than another can't replace her. In fact I think it's good that Narkevich replaces Tumilovich only IF Aliaksandra has talent for being in the group, otherwise it wouldn't be fair at all, of course...
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